this post was submitted on 17 Sep 2025
38 points (89.6% liked)

Comradeship // Freechat

2582 readers
74 users here now

Talk about whatever, respecting the rules established by Lemmygrad. Failing to comply with the rules will grant you a few warnings, insisting on breaking them will grant you a beautiful shiny banwall.

A community for comrades to chat and talk about whatever doesn't fit other communities

founded 4 years ago
MODERATORS
 

I notice this with people talking about capitalism, obviously, but honestly what drove me to make this post is the attempted arguments against veganism. They're basically 95% unoriginal and fail under the most basic of scrutiny.

Take, for example, "not eating the meat won't bring the cow back." Under basically any logical scrutiny, this is a clear double standard to any other purchasing decision in capitalist society, and doesn't really make any sense. But I've seen in so many times over the years, so much so that im planning on becoming a vegan over a period of time. Not because of any arguments vegans make, but because somehow pro-meat eaters are losing a debate to a brick wall, and the conclusions I've made myself have convinced myself that I should be vegan. And I'm really starting to ask, do people just...like...ctrl+c ctrl+v arguments in their head?

I...try to be nice. But...how little respect to your own ability do you have if you do that? Not only to justify something you really don't have to, but something you obviously dont care about. I mean...sorry, it's just baffling to me.

In the words of Kim Kitsuragi from disco elysium, "I dont understand officer...please, help me understand"

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] Oppopity@lemmygrad.ml 2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Also I already said that without an organised boycotting effort no change can be done.

Going vegan is a boycott lmao

If I were to go vegan I'd be the only one.

Same argument as before "I'm one person I can't make a difference" - 1 billion people not making a difference.

[–] SigmaStalin@lemmygrad.ml -1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Yeah the fact that its a boycot is the problem. Its liberal individualist thinking.

Same argument as before "I'm one person I can't make a difference" - 1 billion people not making a difference Oh god i thought this site was lib free but here we are. No i am not voting with my pocket. Yes i will not even be noticed it i were to boycot nor will the 60-70 muslim grammas ever change their mind even if the best vegan debatebro talked at them for hours

[–] Oppopity@lemmygrad.ml 2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Also I already said that without an organised boycotting effort no change can be done.

Yeah the fact that its a boycot is the problem. Its liberal individualist thinking.

[–] SigmaStalin@lemmygrad.ml -2 points 5 days ago (2 children)

Do you consider veganism an organised effort? Cuz i aint seeing any vegan org actually put a dent in the meat industry where i live. Boycot is not just pausing the consumption of meat there also needs to also be systemic effort.

[–] NotMushroomForDebate@lemmygrad.ml 1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I linked to multiple organisations from around the world working on systemic issues at various levels in this comment.
I'm interested in your perspective regarding what these organisational efforts are missing.

I'd be happy to provide more information regarding the success/impacts of specific campaigns and organisations if it's relevant.

[–] SigmaStalin@lemmygrad.ml -2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I'm interested in your perspective regarding what these organisational efforts are missing.

Uhhh the fact that vegans consider bees thinking feeling individuals and no amount of brainwashing will make anyone this stupid?

As ML's we are trying to convince people that the rich, who are leeching off of the peoples work, dont deserve the wealth they have (which is a very common sense position). Yet people do not want to side with us. Just imagine trying to get them to agree bees are individuals and that they matter.

Unfortunately for vegans there will be no organised effort to lead veganism to success until there is a way to create cheap meat/milk etc without killing animals for it. Organised effort doesnt mean a few thousand people in a community harrassing people or breaking into factories, it means a majority who will impose their will over a minority. In this case vegans fighting (over bees and cows mind you) normal people to take their rights to consume animal products which is a huge part of our nature.

This is what separates liberal thinking which believes that a few hundred vegans in a city are going to make a change with their individual efforts, with Marxist Leninist thinking which argues that for change to be made the majority must not only want change but also must be willing to fight over it to impose their will on the weaker minority.

[–] NotMushroomForDebate@lemmygrad.ml 1 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

What does this odd diatribe have anything to do with organisation methods and the efficacy of organisations? You stated that you believe that the vegan movement was not organised, which is what I was responding to.
I'm not interested in debating veganism itself with people online, so I won't respond to the old tired anti-vegan arguments.

Organised effort doesnt mean a few thousand people in a community harrassing people or breaking into factories, it means a majority who will impose their will over a minority.

Ignoring the mischaracterisation, this is a very dogmatic and unreflected assertion. Is fighting for minority rights, for example, a case of a "majority imposing their will over a minority"? This is simply class reductionism, which not tolerated in any serious ML org or party.

This is what separates liberal thinking which believes that a few hundred vegans in a city are going to make a change with their individual efforts

I've already demonstrated that there are large organised efforts tackling specific systemic issues and challenges. In what way are these "individual efforts" of a few hundred people? What do you believe organising looks like?

I thought you had specific concerns regarding some methods of organising and their effectiveness, or would have appreciated learning more about a movement you might otherwise not be very informed on. It seems you're only interested in airing grievances and pushing reactionary rhetoric.

[–] Oppopity@lemmygrad.ml 2 points 5 days ago

There are animal welfare groups. Some even break into factory farms to expose how unethical they are. Countries even put up laws from filming in slaughter houses because they know how shit they are.