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this post was submitted on 09 Jul 2023
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I'm sorry. What? Hollowed out our industrial power? Lmfao.
The US is ramping up production to meet the needs of Ukraine. Granted, it took a bit to get that rolling, but when we decide to make weapons, boy do we make weapons.
Throw as many articles as you want about how Ukraine is using more ammunition that we are currently producing. They mean nothing.
We're giving them our older model stuff from the 90s. Compare that to the mothballed museum pieces Russia is rolling out.
And I'm not going to respond further because after reading what you posted and preemptively defending this post, you are a troll, a vatnik, a Russian propaganda mouthpiece or all three.
US industry accounts for only around 11% of its GDP nowadays, and the amount of shells US can produce today is laughable.
Biden has literally admitted that the reason cluster munitions are being sent is because US ran through the regular munition stocks.
You're not going to respond further because you know that the facts aren't on your side. No amount of name calling and personal insults is going to change that. You're either an ignoramus or a liar, either way not a good look.
Draining stocks is exactly what the US wants. Are you really this daft and don't understand this simple point. This is huge money making expedition for the US.
While people making money from the war is certainly a big aspect of all this, the reality is that US can't produce ammunition at the rate it's being consumed. Two things can be true at the same time. Eventually, this grift will run its course and it will be the people of Ukraine who suffer in the end being led up the garden path by the west.
I don't disagree with the sentiment that Ukrainians aren't suffering and won't suffer more because of this. I'm not a fan of the US hegemony.
That being said I think you grossly underestimate the weapons capacity of the US both stockpile and production ability.
Heck I could make that argument about Russia as well...
I think we'll find out soon who's underestimating and who's overestimating what US is producing. However, all the official sources from US disagree with you right now. And again, Ukraine isn't a core interest for US and they're not going to send every last bit of weaponry to Ukraine. Here's what Obama had to say in 2016:
Meanwhile, Russia was producing over a million shells a year even before the war started, and has only increased up production since then
CSIS just published an article admitting that Russia isn't going to be running out of missiles either https://www.csis.org/analysis/russia-isnt-going-run-out-missiles
tank production in Russia is ramping up too https://bulgarianmilitary.com/2023/06/29/russias-uvz-halts-all-secondary-output-begins-tank-mass-production/
The reality of the situation is that Russia has a state run military industry that it inherited from USSR, while the west has privatized industry. It's much easier for Russia to ramp up production than it is for the west.
Finally, there's China with an industrial base that dwarfs the west. China needs Russia to secure resources and as a shield in the west. The worst possible outcome for China would be if Russia was balkanized by the west and US was able to install puppet regimes there. If Russia ever found itself in a difficult position then China will step in and provide support.
Think about this for a moment. The USA is using its older stuff first.
You look at what Russia is using and you think it's old or not as advanced. Why aren't you making the logical conclusion (which is backed by evidence if you look) that Russia is doing the exact same thing as the USA?
Why is the USA's use of old weaponry simply that--use of old weaponry--but Russia's use of old weaponry is...something else? Corruption? Incompetence? Whatever other excuse you want to come up with?
It's safe to assume that Russia knows that the USA and other countries are going to send older reserves of weapons first. So it's not unreasonable for Russia to not use more than is necessary and bring in their newest and best weaponry.
They really don't understand a simple concept. Unused munitions are a "bad" thing for an arms manufacturer. This is all a huge boon for the US at the cost of non US lives.
I don't think anyone fails to understand this. The points being made are that 1) Russia is also using old stock so assessing Russian capabilities based on what they are fielding is copium; 2) the US literally doesn't have the physical manufacturing assets required to increase production to anything resembling reasonable; 3) while the US is ramping up production, Russia and China are already significantly further ahead in manufacturing and also are ramping up production meaning the US is racing to see who can produce more while starting from way behind and not having anywhere near the infrastructure necessary to ramp faster than either Russia or China.
Yup. Have all of our "older" stuff, we have a lot and will make new ones.
Oh, and be careful in this thread. Fighting vatniks high as hell on copium is dangerous. Best to let them be and ignore them.
All they have is the same few weak and dumb arguments. It'll give you a headache of you try to logically argue with someone who just throws shit.
It's fun for a bit but I have em blocked now. These "communists" have all the same taking points. Always "US bad" but Russia doing the exact same thing is somehow good...
Yup, fun for a while. Unfortunately I'm a "do as I say, not as I do" advice giver....lol
Not sure where anybody claims that what Russia is doing is good somehow.