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MAGA rages over report Pentagon exempting Ukraine from government shutdown
(www.newsweek.com)
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this post was submitted on 23 Sep 2023
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War is not up for a vote. The war machine will continue to operate regardless of what the House of Representatives does.
Very true. Russia doesn't care what the US house thinks. They started the war after all. Russia continues to mobilize the war machine while the US fails to act decisively
The US fails to act decisively because they don't want the war to ever end. Give Ukraine just enough support to keep the war going forever, until Russia is bankrupt.
Do you not see the contradiction in your statement or are ya just stupid. Russia going bankrupt could be considered a victory condition. Especially if concessions such as Crimea can be forced in a peace deal.
Russia isn't going bankrupt.
What might happen is they just run out of bodies and the country collapses into civil war, 1917 style. Petrostates don't go bankrupt, they collapse violently.
Potato patoto, regardless Ukraine can claim victory. If Russia runs out of manpower and implodes id consider that a win.
You really don't care about Russian citizens and conscripts, do you? Do they deserve to die?
The citizens? Irrelevent, unless it can gain notable strategic advantages IE Dresden. The Conscripts? Yes. They could turn their rifles at any time they couldve draft dodged but they didnt, they deserve same as the Japanese, Germans, and Italians during WW2.
No no, I mean civilians are going to die if Russia actually collapsed like that. That's a bad thing.
I have the radical belief that death is bad. I guess liberals are too bloodthirsty for the flesh of "orcs" to remember the human cost of endless war.
Dude im a socialist, aint a liberal. I just happen to be bloodthirsty and of the opinion that a collapsed Russia is also a declawed Russia. They cant exactly conquer other nations if theyre balkanized.
Balkanization was a tragedy that resulted in immense suffering and immiseration of working people across the former USSR. It enabled total capitalist hegemony and ushered in our current new guilded age of inequality and imperialist superexploitation.
If you support making that even worse by destroying Russia and her people you aren't a fucking socialist. You're a Western chauvinist, supporting the US/NATO agenda of total domination over everything everywhere forever.
There can be peace without destroying Russia.
It aint chauvinism if I want to balkanize every country, just happens that Russia is at the top of that list . Also im ideologically descended from my ancestors philosophies, it just happens to align most closely with socialism.
Maybe im insane for wanting to devolve the world into a veritable Holy Roman Empire of political and national insanity. I just wish to see a second springtime of nations.
You just so happen to want to start with America's enemies, which will just so happen to increase America's geopolitical strength in Europe and Asia.
The USSR split up peacefully. Russia will not. Millions will die, and that's if they don't fire off all their nukes in their death throes.
Yeah, my wants align with the US to a degree. But the thing is thats cause the US is a solid counter weight to empires like China, Russia, and India.
Also the collapse of the Russian state can be lessened in the same way the collapse of Yugoslavia was, just dont let the UN give orders. As for the nukes, so fucking what? The Ruskies have been using it as a scare tactic for so long I kinda want to see them do it. But lets be honest their probably in some way shape or form broken, worst case scenario we find out what it looks like when a nuke flies backwards and blows up its operators.
A country of 23.5 million vs 147.2 million, with GDPs of $120 billion vs $2.2 trillion. Leaving aside the nukes, these are very different things.
Adding in the nukes, maybe they don't blow up all their neighbors. Maybe they all just die. That's a bad thing you fucking psychopath
Aint a fucking psychopath just thoughly apathetic. As I stated I doubt their nukes even work let alone anything the nukes need to work. Also arent most of Russias nukes scattered about in semi-remote locations? Oh no a couple goats a bridge got vaporized.
Anyways the economic size is irrelevent. The fact of the matter is without an oppressive authoritarian oligarchy suppressing everything its possible that the newly created countries could have economic booms. For example damn near every country released after ww1.
Being apathetic to human suffering makes you a psychopath.
Its apathy to hypothetical human suffering.
And a willingness to gamble with human lives.
Both your proposal of inaction and my proposal of action will do that. At a certain point it becomes a matter of statistics, which has the best outcome. And as loathed to admit he had a point Stalin put it best "A single death is a tragedy a million is a statistic"
My proposal is peace talks, actually.
Holy shit, the amount of lines in this thread dang
The Ruskies could pull out and enter them any day now. Theyve had what 2 years and they havent. Well with the exception of those jokes they made where they kept all of the Donbas.
The fact of the matter is the ball for peace is on the Ruskie side of the court. They could go home any day they damned well wanted to, put it down as the Russian federation version of the Vietnam war.
They can't, because Ukraine is promised NATO membership when the war is over. That's kinda their own fault for escalating this into a war, but now that it's on the table they can't pull out. They kinda fucked themselves into never retreating from this stupid disaster and without some kind of peace deal that guarantees Ukraine doesn't join NATO the war can never end. They're fucked.
"Oh well they can just let NATO sit right on their border!"
America almost started WW3 over the Cuban missile crisis, having a hostile neighbor like that is an existential threat that can not be allowed.
The matter of NATO expanding into Ukraine is Russias fault, now its their problem. As I said the ball is in their court. Play stupid games win stupid prizes, actually this is kinda like a Greek Tragedy they feared what would happen and sowed the seeds to cause it to happen.
Regardless retreat is always an option, also theres fuck all stopping Ukraine from entering an alliance with the US seperate from NATO. Actually I say we do that, maybe Putin will have a stroke.
Retreat isn't an option because NATO expanding in to Ukraine isn't an option, and that's basically all their fault. They fucked themselves.
Always has been. We saw how Obama ran on an anti-war platform in the middle of the middle east wars. Then he continued and expanded the wars after being elected.
The liberals don't want to talk about that.
Gosh isn't it strange, conservatives never saw a war they didn't like until the one that's inconveniencing the Russian president in 2023.
LIBERALS LIBERALS LIBERALS
Do you think the only people opposed to endless war in Ukraine are conservative?
conservatives and tankies. Not much difference between the two tbh. And both looooove sucking putin's dick
I want the war to end.
Dronies want endless war, that's why they love giving weapons to radical right-wingers. Once Russia is done, then America can spend another 20 years dealing with the new terrorist organizations that they spawned. Y'all did the same shit in Afghanistan - arm radical islamists to stop Russia and then start a war against the radical Islamists you armed. Win/Win!
The war could end at any time if Putin stops invading his neighbor. But you know this and just want to keep sucking authoritarian dick under the guise "but I want peeeeece" You're aware that everyone not radicalized like you can see right through that, right? Gotta love how you compare a country being genocided to "arming radical islamists" Pathetic.
Arming neonazis in Ukraine is essentially the same as arming Islamists in Afghanistan. The parallels are extremely obvious. It's even the same proxy war against Russia!
We can't control Russia's actions. We can control ours, and we should be pushing for peace talks. We won't, because dronies a frothing at the chance to defeat Russia and are willing to fight to the last Ukrainian to make it happen.
And dronies pretend to be tolerant, but when frustrated they love to accuse people of "sucking dick". As if there something shameful or submissive about the act, as if it even makes sense as an insult.
Ok, Kremlin. Gtfo Ukraine and there is peace. And there's far more Nazis in Russia or did we forget about the beloved Dmitry Utkin? Nobody bought people slurping up the Russian line ever took the neo nazi line seriously it's absolutely amazing that you people are still trotting it out lmaooooo.
I love how you guys got a new insult of "dronies" on top of "liberals" for anyone not a tankie too!
Why the fuck should we let an ally asking for help from being genocided just die and empower Russia even more? How is this "peace" of wiping someone off the map a good idea to you?
What's the matter dronie, can't stand your own bullshit?
So you get to smear us as tankies, but when we reciprocate it's not fair! 😭
What the fuck do you think peace talks are? Peace talks don't mean we just let Russia steamroll the country, they mean we negotiate an end to the war.
You just want unconditional surrender from Russia, no negotiations and no concessions and no conditions, and they're pretty obviously not going to do that. At best you're just going to create a new DMZ like the one between the Koreas. At worst this shit escalates into another World War.
Your phrasing here is extremely telling. Russia surrendering???? They are the aggressor and they had no right to invade and genocide. You want an unconditional SURRENDER from Ukraine. I want Russia to stop INVADING and GO HOME.
Okay so you're just lying now. I don't want Ukraine to surrender, I want a peace deal. That means both sides negotiate to find a compromise. Russia's invasion was unjustified and strategically pretty stupid, but that doesn't mean we just wage an eternal forever war until Russia collapses into civil war or everyone in Ukraine is dead.
Is all peace just surrender to you?
no, we kick Russia's ass until they leave Ukraine. if that means putin loses face and gets deposed, well that's an internal Russian matter
The goal isn't to make Russia leave Ukraine, it's to keep them embroiled in conflict as long as possible to weaken Russia. That's why the amount of aid will never actually be enough for Ukraine to win; just enough to never lose.
There's never been a war that democrats didn't love or expand from 2 to 7.