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this post was submitted on 24 Sep 2023
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Correct, given it's a constitutional right.
You mean REGULATING guns or gun magazines violates the well REGULATED militia of the constitution? Are the caps enough for you or do I need to spell it out?
"Well regulated" in the context of the constitution clearly meant well-trained/mobilized/deployed, in an efficient and orderly manner, and should be adequately capable. This is clear if you look at it from an unbiased linguistic standpoint, and look at the usage of the phrase around the time. Words don't constantly have the same exact meaning that we're primarily used to, they're a spectrum of different definitions that form, morph, and wane over time.
Plus the first/second clause in the sentence is clearly just a justification for the other 2 clauses, it's not a directive or even the subject. That alone would make the "well regulated" part meaningless for anything other than explaining why the constitution is in place in the first place. It doesn't give orders to "regulate" militias, or even that militias are the only things which should have access to guns in the first place.
The point of arguing against current treatment of guns isn't to argue what the syntax or basic meaning of the amendment was, no that's clear if you actually know what you're talking about (and you can find plenty of actual linguists breaking it down for you), it's to argue to what extent the amendment's directive (disallowing infringement on the people's right to bear arms) applies, or especially if the amendment is even beneficial or if it's harmful to a modern America and should be amended.
Fine argument. Please also remember that militia in the context of the 2A references what is now the national guard.
No, it really doesn't. Under Federal Law 10 U.S. Code § 246 - Militia: composition and classes:
If you're an able-bodied male between the ages of 17 and 45, a citizen or have declared an intention to become a citizen of the US, you're part of the militia.
Some people seem to have trouble with the english in the second, so I started writing it in relation to something else to illustrate how the sentence structure works.
So, in the above revision, who would you say has the right to keep and eat food, "the people" or "a well balanced breakfast?" Clearly, as "breakfast" is a concept and incapable of "ownership," "the people" is the answer. It stays the same gramatically if you plug in "regulated militia" for "balanced breakfast" and "guns" for "food," the first part is clarifying the reasoning for them delineating the right's importance, the scond part is delineating the right itself and who has it.
It isn't saying you're only allowed to eat breakfast, it's saying that breakfast is important, and as such, your right to keep food in your fridge/pantry and cook/eat it to your specifications shall not be hampered by the government.
If it were a prerequisite, it would say
But it doesn't, it specifically delineates "the people" as those with the right to arms.
Furthermore, under the definition of militia as per the US Gov, able bodied male citizens age 17-45, and those who wish to be citizens in that same age group, that would mean women dom't have the right to bear arms.
Also, from the wikipedia article on the second,
Clearly, the intent wasn't to give the National Guard, a subsect of the US Military, the power to fight itself.
I agree, I prefer the argument that "everyone deserves the right to defend themselves so long as they haven't proven they're a danger to others, and presumption of innocence is how our court system works thankfully, so only those convicted of violent crimes should be barred from ownership." Problem is everyone likes to argue about the intent, which still seems not to be "let the army have guns." I agree, we shouldn't have a standing army.
No, the difference is who the aggressor is.
Fuck it, I'd rather them be able to have em too than nobody, fine you win. I figured you probably would agree with that one though.
Sure
No.
Which is why I think the "what the founding fathers intended" argument isn't necessarily the best path.
Except it isn't though. We already have a large amount of gun laws, and we don't properly enforce those. We could start doing that, and paying attention to the root causes of the violence rather than one of many tools people use to do harm by focusing on either A) completely ineffective feel good laws that solve nothing or B) completely totalitarian laws that restrict our rights and generally disproportionately affect marginalized POC communities.
But no, gotta ban standard capacity magazines which are in 95% of people's firearms and make them disadvantaged in a deadly force encounter in which they would need full capacity. Doesn't matter that criminals could just buy a few regular followers or file the limiter down so they have full capacity but I can't because I am not running away if I have to use it in defense, so I'll get caught unlike them. Doesn't matter that a mass shooter can just put in another mag and keep shooting since there isn't anyone returning fire, so the law only affects people carrying for self defense since they are limited on how many mags they can carry unless they want to lug around a bookbag or a trenchcoat like the school shooters.
The law can just be a dumb law, it doesn't mean I support school shootings or some such nonsense argument you'd use to discredit me, you just support bad laws because "guns bad" and I actually think about their impact or lack thereof.
And how many of those firearms were provided by the ATF? What, two or three separate fucktons? I can't remember. There was the first one, then fast and furious, then I think another.
It may "work" if we go with the totalitarian options sure, especially if we forget about the 600,000,000+ guns already out and trillions of rounds to go with them, and the people who don't want to relinquish those, but feature bans which are by and large what the legislators push are completely meaningless.
Not according to the legislation they've been attempting recently. It's almost always something that is too far, or just a feature ban.
Define unsecured. This is too subjective, to some it means on your person or locked in a house, to some it means stored in a safe with the ammo in another safe (neither of which I'll have time to open in a break in).
Good.
Individual responsibility would have the theif be responsible for the theft, not the victim for "being too easy to steal from." You don't actually want individual responsibility to take a front seat, you want to pawn it off on people you feel were culpable for being victimized.
You contradict yourself.
Waiting periods have shown to have a negligable effect on crime. It is specifically for "crimes of passion," and "suicide prevention," but typically those will be commited regardless with whatever is on hand or they'll just wait the 10 days if they're really intent on going through with it, and if they don't this time they can pick it up and just have it for next time. Mass shootings fall outside the purview of waiting periods, those psychos plan their attacks for months.
"More thorough checks" is also subjective and often how we get into ableist conversations on how "the 'mentally ill' catagorically do not deserve rights." I'm not typically for them. If we actually enforced the laws we already have too that'd be a good start but we can't even do that.
Ah, yeah, that ableism. Not into it. Which mental illnesses should preclude one from their rights, pray tell? And a murderer one year a murderer the next, they'll bide their time. In fact statistically the ATF says average "time to crime," (that is, time from purchase at a store until it shows up at a crime scene) is *11 years."
And that still doesn't address the 600,000,000+ guns and trillions of rounds already unregistered.
So, you wish for a totalitarian state and death to people you disagree with? And I'm supposed to be the "violent" gun nut?
Ok. Have fun.
A well regulated diet is a much better example, but it destroys your argument. It also goes right into the same ethos as people demanding their high capacity magazines and 64 oz sodas.
How does that destroy anything? A diet is still a concept that lacks the ability to "own." It still isn't dependant on the well balanced diet, the well balanced diet is simply the reason for delineating your right to keep and eat food.
Lol, I love how people like you just say things and assume they are true.
They don't assume anything, they've been told how to interpret it so that's what they do.
The National Guard is a component of the United States Army. A militia is a civilian force and would never be deployed to fight in other countries outside of wartime.