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this post was submitted on 08 Oct 2023
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Can someone please explain to me why both Israel and Hamas (not the Palestinian people as a whole, just Hamas) can't be condemned for the atrocities they have committed?
Because Lemmy seems to be telling me I have to pick a side and, as far as I can tell, both sides have committed atrocities. Why should I pick either side? Why can't I just say both are evil and not support either side? Must I take a side in every conflict? Because I sure as hell didn't when Iran and Iraq were warring.
"Both are evil" rhetoric is often used to justify or obfuscate one sides crimes, and because on the broader scale, Israel unfolds destruction and death at a higher scale, so there's a lot of intense emotions from thise keyed into Palestinian struggle. That's why so many want you to pick.
It is important to remember Hamas ≠ Palestinians, and Israeli government ≠ Israeli citizens. Yes, they live in a colonial state, but Hamas doesn't care if they try to fight to change it or not, furthermore, most left leaning people are in colonial states or in former colonizing states so they are basically saying they think violence against them is justified too. Everyone should be aware of their privileges and work to dismantle the systems that create them, but that doesn't mean they need be killed in order to realize that!
It's ridiculous because you're absolutely right too, Israeli calling them all "human animals" and doing a total blockade of Gaza is a war crime, but so is what happened to Shani Louk. In the world I am fighting for, the people responsible for both would be held accountable.
I can't think of a single successful revolution that didn't end up with significant civilian casualties. Revolutions only arise because of extreme discontent among a population about their socioeconomic position.
Remember the Reign of Terror in France? Washington's campaign against the Iroquois in America? Revolution is bloody and revolution leads to civilian casualties, but at its core it's caused by systematic oppression by the government and inaction on behalf of the population.
By the way, Gazans have tried peaceful protest. It got thousands of people shot.
A gross oversimplification. Will civilians inevitably get got in the crossfire or be targeted by reactionaries during protests as part of the revolution? Sure. But there's a difference between that and seeking out and targeting a site without a military presence and civilians from more than just Israel.
Not a good example to cite since that destabilized revolutionary france and helped create the conditions for Napoleon to rise to power.
Again, a revolution is bloody because of the people reacting against it, it doesn't have to be because your side decided to target civilians and perpetuate cycles of violence. The revolutions that created long lasting new paradigms didn't serve as vehicles to enact vengeance.