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this post was submitted on 20 Oct 2023
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Mildly Infuriating
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Thank god there are so many better quality EV choices out there these days.
Even better, look into non-BEV choices. Hydrogen cars are now a thing. But people are just weirdly desiring of a BEV monopoly, with themselves as the ultimate loser.
Why would you want a hydrogen car and still be dependent on gas stations? I'd rather just charge at home using solar panels.
Also, Hydrogen is notoriously hard to nail down in the sourcing - Green is great, blue not so much as it means there's more fossil fuel production somewhere in it's creation. This has led to Denmark pulling back on it's investment in hydrogen infrastructure and closing it's stations. https://www.hydrogeninsight.com/transport/hydrogen-vehicles-in-denmark-left-without-fuel-as-all-commercial-refuelling-stations-shuttered/2-1-1519914
Perhaps people who only have on street parking, and therefore find it difficult/impossible to charge at home.
Have no direct experience but from what I saw on YouTube videos, filling an hydrogen tank seems to take a similar amount of time to charge from 30 to 80% a car at a fast 150kw station
Except that you're forced to fill always at 100% and because it requires an operator for security it's not available 24/7
Maybe it's better for a freight truck as it would require the electricity of a small town to recharge with those megawatt charger connectors
15 mins to fill, 400 mile range according to this article on one particular car
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/features/full-gas-6-weeks-hydrogen-powered-car
I could live with that
Maybe it depends on where you live, but plenty of city street parking with a charger here, not as cheap as using your own solar energy, but still pretty cheap compared to gasoline.
I live in East London. There’s are quite a few chargers. There certainly aren’t ‘plenty’ in the context of a large-scale switch from petrol/diesel.
Certainly not entire me to get a plug-in yet
Hydrogen is made from water. It too can be made from solar panels. Though probably from some kind of more centralized system than everyone with their own solar panels.
yeah the reason you're getting these downvotes:
water is made of hydrogen and oxygen. it can be split through electrolysis into it's components through the addition of electricity.
if baseband solar had the capacity you could power electrolysis production of hydrogen and it's been proposed in a few places where solar is cheap and land is available.
The numbers are important in such considerations.
Science!
yeah science bitches! I honestly had a whole rant fucking raving about how stupid someone could possibly be to think that 'hydrogen is made from water' but walked the dog before replying and let it just go.
I do weep for our future though, because goddamn, I'm a fucking moron. So if I'm the one dishing science to the chuds... we're all fucked
Perhaps you should have considered they don't speak English. Consider these phrases. "Hydrogen is made from water." "Hydrogen can be produced from water." "It too can be made using solar panels." "It can also be produced using solar panels." Syntactically, both sets are very similar, but have very different meanings.
Sometimes we need to take a step back and see if there's a legitimate reason people say or do certain things instead of assuming everyone is hopelessly stupid.
*I don't know if they speak English as a first language, a second, or at all. But just given the odd phrasing, I suspect it was fed through a translator. And Lemmy is more diverse than some other social platforms.
perhaps! I can be a judgemental asshole. But I also figured after the first dozen other people downvoted them I'd at least mention it.
edit: no, looking at their post history, I think they have a fine grasp on english, just not basic physics or chemistry.
I didn't check their history, could be the case.
so you jumped to assume I was the asshole because you lacked complete data.
I see there's lots of that going around so I'll try to treat you with the kindness and respect you deserve.
UNLIKE MR "Hydrogen is made from water. It too can be made from solar panels."
tsk tsk tsk :D
I don't see anywhere that I assumed you were an asshole. I merely pointed out one possibility why something so clearly wrong could have been said that way. And you yourself acknowledged that you hadn't checked to see if that made sense. And now you're jumping to conclusions about the motivations of others again, rather than asking them if that's their motivation. If there's a pattern, I'd say it's that one. And even there, jumping to conclusions doesn't make you an asshole, but your response after doing so might.
...and all of that was written while I ignored the emoticon at the end, so reading more into context is maybe something I should do. ;)
Applesauce is made from apples in the same way hydrogen is made from water.
I appreciate your advocacy for a generous interpretation but I see nothing wrong with the claim hydrogen is made from water.
Wait til they find out about dihydrogen monoxide AKA the drink that 100% of people have and eventually die
I like the idea of EVs because I (and a lot of other people here in California) have a solar system that produces more electricity than what I need day-to-day, so charging the car is effectively free. I don't have an EV yet but will probably buy one next year.
I really like like the Ioniq 5 and 6, but it's kinda ugly at the front and back. I just want an EV that looks like a car, not some futuristic-looking thing.
Don’t you get paid for that extra electricity?
I do but the rate is very low.
The cost of electricity in summer is around $0.45/kWh in peak times and $0.37/kWh in off-peak times. I get 1:1 credits for excess generation, so any overproduction during the day can offset usage at night or on cloudy days.
However, if I have credits left at the yearly true-up, they're only cashed out at around $0.04/kWh. There's more value in using the credits rather than cashing them out.
FCEVs basically mean the same thing, and it will be viable for everyone and not just the rich.
Batteries are only getting cheaper and I have never seen a hydrogen station or even vehicle in my entire life.
You probably didn't see a BEV until the last several years. FCEVs will plunge in cost until they are no more expensive than ICE cars. That will be the real revolution.
Battery vehicles were made the hot item over a decade ago by Tesla... The real evolution would be to get rid of car dependency altogether
Not sure if that would be an evolution. That would be like a sea sponge saying “the real evolution would be getting rid of multicellular structures”.
Car dependency is a new thing, and it’s also called “using cars because we vastly prefer that to not using cars”.
A monopoly is not when a technology is more popular than another technology.
They are aiming to ban all alternatives, or create subsidies in such way that only one idea can exist. That is consistently with a monopoly.
No, it's not. A monopoly is a market situation in which a single entity controls the supply of a product or service. A government can be a monopolist. For instance in many countries the government owns the railway company.
You're describing regulation. That's a whole different topic.
Then you may prefer something like oligopoly. The goal is to have just a few companies that only make one type of car with no other options. Cost of transportation will go much higher. The conclusion is still the same: very little or no consumer choices.
I'm not arguing what the market ought to be like. I just don't agree with your definitions.
It's still something pretty close to a government mandated monopoly. Hell, most Tesla fanboys want literally just Tesla owning the entire car industry. And the Chinese car companies are all being controlled by the Chinese government. It's closer to being one company than you think.
This is confidently incorrect.
The real answer you were looking for was PHEV.
ahh yes, hydrogen. They are standing all around at the dealers waiting to be bought. hm? what? you mean Mercedes did still not manage to fulfill the promise of like 2003 of hydrogen car series in 2023?
I know what you are saying and I also like the idea, but BEV are much less complicated and way more adult yet.
Why not both though? and add phev in the mix?
In the short-term, all types of cars will exist including PHEVs. It is the BEV fanatic that is trying to eliminate all alternatives.