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Rulationship with Reality
(pawb.social)
Image transcription: a section of a Wikipedia article titled "Relationship with Reality". It reads "From a scientific viewpoint, elves are not considered objectively real. [3] However," End transcription.
Link in case anyone's curious:
https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Elf#Reality_and_perception
Wow, they really dance around that. The belief in elves is real, champ, not the elves themselves due to that belief. This isn't a Terry Pratchett novel.
It's written that way to be as neutral as possible.
Replace "Elf" with "God" and you'll see how important it is to "dance"
There's the same amount of evidence for gods as there is for elves and orbiting teapots.
Yet gods and elves change the world and teapots are content to remain unobserved
There is absolutely zero necessity to dance around the non existance of god. There is objectively no god.
What a thing to say. It's perfectly reasonable to say that there's insufficient evidence to believe in any gods, but to state that there is no god as a matter of fact is as presumptive as saying that there objectively is.
God doesn't exist. The tooth fairy doesn't exist. Elvis Presley is dead. If you want to believe there is a possibility for any of these statements to be false, you have a questionable relationship with reality.
There is evidence to suggest that the tooth fairy isn't real–when tested, magic has consistently been shown to not exist. The only intangible forces that have been shown to act on things are gravity, electromagnetism, and the nuclear forces, none of which allows for teeth to turn into quarters. On top of that, most parents will admit that they made the tooth fairy up. It's reasonable to say that there is objectively no tooth fairy because there's evidence to suggest it can't exist.
There is evidence to suggest that Elvis Presley is dead. Here's a transcript of the medical examiner's report listing the likely cause of death as H.C.V.D. associated with ASHD. He would be 88 today, which, considering his lifestyle, would be an impressive age to reach without dying. It's reasonable to say that Elvis is definitely dead, because there's evidence to suggest he can't be alive.
There is no such evidence to suggest that there can't be a creator deity. I don't believe that there is, but I won't make a truth claim without evidence. If you wanna say that the Christian god isn't real, that's fine. There are contradictions in their holy text that show that the god in their book cannot exist. But to say that no god can exist is a truth statement that lacks evidence. Saying it just makes you look like an edgy teenager who just figured out that they're atheist. Makes you look like a fan of thunderf00t or Carl of Akkad.
Followed by:
Uh, OK.
Yes, made up. Just like deities made up in more ignorant times.
Are you seriously arguing in good faith that "god" exists as anything more than a mass delusion? And you think not believing that is "edgy"? If so, I really think we're done.
No! I'm saying that making a truth claim without evidence is necessarily irrational! I literally said that I don't believe it. There is a difference between not believing something and believing not something.
I think that centering your online persona around your lack of belief while making comments about how delusional someone must be to be religious is what's edgy.
I would counter that your pedantic hair splitting is what is truly edgy. "I don't believe in god, but I don't believe in not god" makes no semantic difference and is rather perfect fence sitting.
Okay buddy, you've convinced me. Gnostic atheism is much more reasonable and true than agnostic atheism. Saying "I don't know and don't much care" is so much edgier than naming yourself "sin free for 0 days" and claiming to know for an absolute fact that there is no god
When it's never been proved otherwise, it's a weird hill to die on.
That's precisely what I'm saying. If you can't prove that something is true, it's weird to go to such lengths justifying an affirmative belief that it's true, instead of taking the position that you simply don't know and therefore don't believe any claims made about it either way.
If you can't say god doesn't exist, you are willing to say anything is possible. I believe 100% the sun will rise in the East tomorrow morning. I guess with your reasoning, I shouldn't discount the chance that the sun will rise from the horizon in which it set. We don't know anything!
I mean we've repeatedly demonstrated tens of millions of times throughout human history that the sun rises in the east, we can verify that the earth spins eastward with instruments and spacecraft, and we have extremely reliable models of reality that give us good reason to authoritatively state that the sun will rise in the east.
I need you to understand that there are no models or experiments that give us reason to authoritatively state that no deity exists, as surely as the sun will rise in the east in the morning. It is entirely possible that a deity exists. I don't believe there is one, but until it can be proven that there isn't one with the same veracity as any other claim, the only reasonable position is "I don't believe it."
Lemme paint you a word picture here. Don't pull out a calculator. If I tell you that 11,441,612 divided by 17 is equal to 673,036, is it most reasonable to say that "no, it definitely isn't" because I just pulled those numbers out of my ass, "yes, it definitely is," because you have faith in my quick math calculating, or "I don't know, but almost certainly not?"
The big difference between that and a claim about a god is that you can easily pull out a calculator and definitely state whether or not it's true, but you can't make that authoritative claim until after you've checked it.
Just saying I love that this in depth discussion about truth and how to best dissect the whole is happening. Helps people to recognize this is a communication that needs to happen and what their own personal stance is. I like it
You can yell at an idiot on the internet, but they'll just say tldr.
Just be glad no one's talking about moon spirits in this post.
What evidence do you have to back up that claim?
I love how nobody is responding to you, because the truth is: we can’t know, but most of us are very sure whether there is a god either way. It’s nonsense to call what an atheist believes absolutely “true,” because we can’t know. I’m an atheist, but it’s just pseudoscience to suggest that we can scientifically prove that there’s no god.
Agreed and well-put. Lack of evidence cannot give creedence to a claim. It's all well and good to believe in (the absence of, or possibility of) supernatural being(s), but to state such beliefs as objective is not follow the scientific method.
Would you say that feelings, thoughts and numbers do "exist"?
Would you say that God has the same power as the number four?
There are a few crusades and jihads that point towards gods being just as meaningfully real to us as dollar values and national pride
Again, that's actions taken by people based on beliefs, not actions taken by that in which they believe.
Same goes with trading a dollar bill for goods and services. That dollar doesn't have legitimate inherent value, but it can manifest change in the world via the people that believe it does. Same goes with pride in your country/city/state/province when you see your region's flag. It isn't physically real, but the wiki never claimed that it is.