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Israeli forces attack Gaza's main city from two directions
(www.reuters.com)
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this post was submitted on 31 Oct 2023
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No matter the human suffering and trauma. If what happens in Gaza, happens to any western country the outcry would be enormous but right now they only turn a blind eye.
How many more civilian deads and suffering the Palestinian population needs to endure for Israel to stop the atrocities.
Killing 1400 doesn't give them the right to kill 10 times more civilians. How many condemnations from human rights watch groups are going to convince Israel and their supporters that what they are doing is absolutely morally corrupt and they aren't any better if not worse than Hamas.
I am personally appalled by the atrocities of Israel! This isn't justified, this is absolutely disproportionate and horrific and if you don't think the same I wonder what a "great" human being you might be.
If any other country but Israel had thousands of rockets fired at it, there would be a massive outcry. Instead we have people cheering.
Can confirm, several rockets everyday. Checkout insta/snaps of people in the south. they are used to it now, drinking coffee and watching oncoming missile from Gaza. This is a very asymmetric war and people cheer a side because the other side has protections in place. Very weird times
What bullshit drink are you consuming? The Iron Dome has only a 90% success rate, so 10 % of the rockets come through. Those rockets maim and kill civilians.
The drink where I have to go to the bunker every now and then. My point was that the Israel defense system is pretty cool and the casualties per missile fired is much less than the other side.
Can you tell us how many maimed and injured civilians there are on both sides of this conflict before the 7th of October. I can tell you, according to OCHA:
And just for context the armed wing of Hamas is believed to be around 30K. How come the most "moral army in the world" has managed to injure and continues to kill and maim so many people, who evidently have nothing to do with Hamas?!?
Is this a proportionate measure? You should really question yourself how you would feel if you were on the other side of the fence.
And a friendly reminder that calling someone's opinion a bullshit does not speak too highly of yourself.
The only difference now is that you are cheering when civilians are killed now in Gaza?
I'm not cheering. But I do think that, if it ends with the removal of Hamas, it is a necessary evil. Remember that Hamas started this escalation and that Hamas could end it at any time by releasing the hostages and surrendering.
And my concern is even if they manage to dismantle Hamas, there would be another terror group that would fill the vacuum left after Hamas.
You can't seriously expect that after all this, people in Gaza won't radicalize. They are going through hell. And let's not forget that the majority of those people are living peacefully, are not part of Hamas and haven't voted for Hamas. Why should they suffer?
And for the record we already see a lot of cases silently endorsed by the IDF and the Israelian government of settlers attacking unprovoked, Palestinians in the West Bank. There were a couple of notable killings as well. So explain to me, how is this different from what Hamas is doing and why those people are not persecuted and given effective sentences?
And why food, electricity, and fuel is not allowed into Gaza? IDF is claiming that Hamas has a stockpile of all of this, so explain to me the rationale of restricting all those and creating a horrible humanitarian catastrophe.
There are reports of kids forced to drink salty water, because there isn't enough drinking water, of doctors who need to operate without anesthesia, of people having not enough food. Hundreds of thousands are expulsed and living in makeshift tents, they cannot escape even if they want, there is bombardment all across Gaza and there isn't a single safe space and houses are indiscriminately destroyed. What IDF would leave would be only death, destruction and immense suffering. Isn't this collective punishment? Is this humane treatment? And how come all of this is coming from a nation who was historically oppressed and suffered immensely. So right now they pretty much repeat all the horrors they were enduring to another nation.
And call me a pessimist, but I don't think this is a recipe for long lasting peace!
There was a massive outcry from the world. It sounds like this: "Its horrible that rockets are getting fired at you! Here is a multi-billion dollar rocket defense system! But if you want the rockets to stop, end your brutal apartheid regime!"
Sadly, the Zionist response is to install the rocket defense system and increase the brutality. Then they smear any critics, including most of the UN and nearly every human rights organization, as biased and antisemitic.
the last time this happened in a western nation it was a world war. the 2nd one. history is a thing, I suggest you educate yourself.
I am well aware of the history, fret not! But isn't it human responsibility to try to avoid the mistakes we did in the past.
Or your point being that this has happened in the past, so it is perfectly fine to happen again?
conflict is inevitable. there will always be someone who desires something that someone else has - territory, money, resources, etc. when those people get enough supporters who share similar beliefs, war is the result. it's the reality we exist in.
And it is up to the international community to say that this isn't fine. I am totally with you.
The only problem is that no matter how many international organizations are trying to tell Israel that grabbing land from Palestinians isn't okay, that creating illegal settlements isn't okay, they continue doing it and incite violence. So they are historically the aggressor in this case.
yeah, if you look at maps from the last ~60+ years, that's certainly true. it's also true that Arab majority countries/organizations keep attacking Israel & they keep losing. each time they taste defeat, Israel seizes more territory. this is completely normal in wargaming (running strategic/tactical scenarios, not just 4x gaming), as well as in an active real world conflict.
an expected outcome arises from specific actions taken, or the wrong actions taken perhaps. it's like whomever is leading hamas is stuck in an echo chamber - they keep fucking up. repeatedly, and then not learning from their mistakes. its just bizarre.
Doesn't this 100% apply to Israel too? That they are also stuck in an echo chamber? Just look at the casualties on both sides before the 7th of October: https://www.ochaopt.org/data/casualties
And now explain to me how come that the armed wing of Hamas is believed around 30K the number of the injured Palestinians are 152.560, many of which are kids and women. In comparison the number of injured Israelis is 6.307.
I think the numbers speak for themselves and any reasonable human being would realise that the amount of force IDF is exercising is absolutely disproportionate. The same that was called "most moral army in the world", I find this highly cynical.
the disproportionate numbers can easily be explained - air superiority. this is something that the Israeli defense policy makers learned from history and is, in a large part, why they've been so successful in this campaign (if that's how we want to define success). Israel controls the space in more ways than just boots on the ground - conversely, hamas is literally ground bound.
that's just another aspect of why this sudden attack by hamas made no sense - they never had a snowball's chance in hell of anything other than sowing some initial chaos and perhaps a quick and dirty territorial gain. it's basically a modern david and goliath story except goliath controls all the stones and most of the slings.
Any other nation would have launched a special operation in their homeland to rescue the hostages. They would also ask help from the un to assist. So this is not equivalent in any sense.