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this post was submitted on 31 Oct 2023
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I'm not saying that they have good choices available. And again, I completely understand your point. But you continue to ignore the reality of the situation. In your example, it's like asking the Jewish person to vote for a Holocaust enabler vs. a Holocaust enabler that actively wants to put them in the gas chambers. Neither one is a good choice by any stretch of the imagination, but even given two extremely bad choices, why choose the one that has a much higher chance of bringing the hate directly to your doorstep?
It's the classic Sophie's Choice. But in this case, rather than having to choose between one child or the other, you're essentially advocating for an alternative where they both die.
Staying home is a de-facto vote for Trump. Especially in a swing state like Michigan. And if Biden were to take the side of the Palestinians, he'd be alienating the entire Jewish population instead. Taking a neutral stance would probably just end up pissing both groups off. While I don't necessarily agree with the position Biden is taking on this, I also understand that there was never an option available to him that wasn't going to piss someone off.
Once you start throwing around extremist rhetoric like "zionist", I stop paying attention. And I'm still not sure where essentially supporting a man who is openly and unapologetically racist against Muslims and wants them all deported is considered a good idea.
Yes, they're being asked to throw up in their mouths a little while voting for the least bad option. I don't deny that. But you have to understand that if you don't do that, you're going to get someone who's even worse.
First off:
I'm a zionist - Biden himself, literally
Second: It shouldn't be hard to understand that Muslims want to send a message, a Biden loss would result in introspection in the democratic party (if they have the wherewithal, highly doubtful)
Third: Plenty of Jewish people particularly in America do not unconditionally support Israel as Biden has. All he had to do is force humanitarian aid through in return for further aid. Which would allow the least amount of anger from both sides.
Instead he has decided to completely ignore the very legitimate grievances of one side while fully endorsing the other. Which is exactly what the GOP does, do they enjoy wide Jewish support?
Lastly:
Thanks for discussing this in good faith by calling my reasonable grievances "extremist rhetoric". This is exactly what is alienating Muslims. Perfectly proving the point.
And the message you'll be sending is that you're perfectly OK electing a President who actively hates you and wants you deported. In what universe do you think Trump is going to be any better for the Muslim community?
No, it'll cause them to wait and say "I told you so" when Trump makes your situation exponentially worse.
It would have done no such thing. It would just cause both sides to demand answers as to why Biden isn't trying to step in and interfere on their behalf.
Again, you are advocating punishing Biden for his decision in all of this by advocating for the re-election of someone who will not only do the exact same thing anyway, but someone who also actively hates you. You continue to fail to understand that there is no scenario where going down that path is in any way going to work out well for you. You are advocating not only making the situation worse, but electing a man who has campaigned on bringing the hate directly to your doorstep.
No, I called your use of the word "zionist" in that context extremist rhetoric.
Calling you out for using extremist rhetoric is "alienating muslims"? Or is it just not agreeing with you?
And what do you think Trump would do in this exact same situation? Hamas is a terror group that is an enemy of the US, and Trump is openly and unapologetically racist against Muslims. You think what Biden is doing is bad? (Yes, it is, btw). Trump would not only allow the exact same thing, he'd probably send over a few fighter jets himself and would probably try to get you deported if you spoke out about it. The fact that you're a US citizen hasn't stopped Trump before.
Even if I disagree with you, I'd fully understand your point here.......
......and then you went here. So you're not actually willing to suffer on behalf of your Muslim bretheren. You're just willing to advocate for them until it directly affects you. You're willing to take an anti-America position while simultaneously hiding behind the very protections that give you the ability to take that position in the first place. And make no mistake, you'll get your wish: Trump and the GOP will treat you as a second class citizen. The "full belly and roof over your head" bit? Not if they have anything to say about it. Good luck getting sympathy at that point from the very people you're now gladly taking a shit all over.
So long as it's not your domestic comfort that's threatened, right?
And I'm sure that supporting a party that believes in "Christian/White Nationalism" (read: white superiority) and has openly and repeatedly called for a ban on Muslim immigration and aid cutoff to Muslim countries because muh religionz is going to work out so much better for you. Let me know how that turns out, eh?
So you're advocating for the fall of a country you live in and are a citizen of? You might wanna re-think that for a minute. And hey, if you're really a part of the "Death to America" crowd, I'm sure there's plenty of people in Palestine, Yemen, Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan and Iran will gladly take you in. I'm sure you'll be much better off over there......
Yeah, I guess it's easy to give the whole "Death to America" schtick while hiding behind the protections that allow you to spew that drivel in the first place. You have shown that not only do you clearly have absolutely no idea how good you have it here, you also have absolutely no idea how much worse it would be for you under a 2nd Trump administration that is campaigning on the backs of attacking your people and your religion.
What's your plan when you're staring at the business end of a shotgun or something held by some lunatic wearing a MAGA hat after being goaded by one of Trump's speeches? Because that's the path you're heading down.
Honestly, they aren't any better than the Bernie Bros. Changing your vote to Trump because Bernie didn't win means that you don't give a shit about policy or issues. No one who actually supported Bernie policies would have ever voted for Trump.
Typical Republican voter thought honestly. I will vote in line with what hurts me the most because it will hurt this one person right there and damned anyone else that sinks in the ship with me.
It's the difference between a "genocide enabler" and a "genocide enacter". It should be clear which is even the smallest bit worse.
Ask yourself this:
Trump moved the US embassy to Jerusalem against the wishes of virtually everybody outside of Israel. He has repeatedly attempted to ban Muslim immigration altogether. What do you think Trump would have done in Biden's position? Be realistic.
Trump would have done the exact same thing. Heck, he may have sent over some fighter jets himself. There is no situation where Trump would have handled the situation in a way that would have better benefitted the people of Gaza. If anything, he'd have used the Hamas attack to re-enact and justify his Muslim bans.