436
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 15 Nov 2023
436 points (97.8% liked)
News
23259 readers
2946 users here now
Welcome to the News community!
Rules:
1. Be civil
Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban. Do not respond to rule-breaking content; report it and move on.
2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.
Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. We have an actively updated blocklist, which you can see here: https://lemmy.world/post/2246130 if you feel like any website is missing, contact the mods. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.
3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.
Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.
4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.
Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.
5. Only recent news is allowed.
Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.
6. All posts must be news articles.
No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.
7. No duplicate posts.
If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.
8. Misinformation is prohibited.
Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.
9. No link shorteners.
The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.
10. Don't copy entire article in your post body
For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
reason # 32,286,232 why cops cannot be trusted with lethal weapons.
disarm the police.
Abolish the police*
no, we just need to utilize the correct tools to get the identified job done without killing lots of people. thats not 'zero policing'
Abolish the police, retain 911, 999, etc. and divert the funds into a variety of different services such as mental health crisis units.
For violent crimes I would propose a community defense group. These members would be from the area they serve and would be subordinate to a community council structure, their positions immediately revocable, with consistent rotation of staff as to avoid the accumulation of power. There's plenty more to say on the structure of local defense but at the end of the day, police intervening on violent crimes in progress is rare (they often make things worse to boot) and these community defense members would likely not be used much. Also, cops don't prevent violence.
Traffic cops are pointless, inconsistent and have repeatedly resulted in unnecessary deaths. With the exception of catching intoxicated drivers (another thing cops are bad at), they do very little to help. Replace them with publicly funded road rangers and additional EMS staff to handle accidents, traffic management, breakdowns, etc.
Meter maids are pointless, get rid of them. Bylaw enforcement criminalizes poverty, get rid of it. Or if the poors absolutely have to suffer more, have a code enforcement wing (which already exists in most cities) with slightly more responsibility.
Cops shouldn't be handing investigations as they are right now. Robberies, murder, rape, theft, you name it. If they're not handed the perpetrator on a silver platter in the first day or two, they're more likely to drop it than solve it. There should be an independent body tasked with investigating crime. The community defense group can serve warrants and make arrests.
Modern police have too much power, perverse incentives, a terrible history and the broader systemic pressures that maintain their existence are a black mark on society. They need to be torn down and built back from the ground up in a decentralized manner, with a complete shift in focus. Replace them with groups that are actually meant to protect and serve, with unhindered accountability to their community
You really think that amateurs with very little experience or training are a good way to deal with violent crime?
No, that's why they want to abolish them.
In the US, most police academies are 6 weeks. We have amateurs with very little training performing that job right now. It's going terribly. I think it goes without saying that anyone who's performing community defense roles would need thorough training and vetting before being allowed to serve
I say let former military members without PTSD do it. They already have a great deal of training in firearms safety and de-escalation.
That wouldn't be a bad idea so long as they're vetted like everyone else and don't get in solely on their service. There's a not insignificant amount of ex-military people in the police force as it is so I'm hesitant to say yes outright. But that wouldn't be my call anyway in the system I'm proposing
Wait, is this a joke? Are you aware of how little training is required to become a cop in the US?
Lol. Buck ass wild.
Alternatively, abolish private car ownership.
After a shit load of public infrastructure development, sure. The proliferation of cars was a horrible mistake
It wasn't a mistake, it was intentional. The auto manufacturers killed the railroad system to make selling cars more profitable.
You sound like someone who has only ever lived in a city. I grew up in a fairly rural area where getting groceries from anywhere other than a little corner store (equivalent to a convenience store) was a 30-45 minute drive. How would you propose handling that without private car ownership? Are we just going to abolish living outside of suburbs, too? Or are we going to fund bus service to all of the little podunk towns in the middle of nowhere?
I live in rural Iowa, the closest grocery store is 15 miles away. I have, in fact, ridden by ebike to do that a few times. We also actually have a rural bus service out here for the county, so it's not like it's an impossible idea for every rural county to have the same thing.
But ultimately, little podunk towns don't really need to exist and should mostly be resettled into the cities anyway. It's just inertia that keeps them alive. Only rural farm, forestry, mining, fishing, and rural recreation workers really need to live out here and really only for a portion of the year. I certainly don't need to live in the middle of fucking nowhere and I hate it.
You might hate it, but a lot of people strongly prefer that sort of lifestyle and would hate living in a city. Are you proposing we force everyone to conform to your preferences?
I agree that the current reliance on private vehicles is unsustainable, but rather than just abolishing private vehicle ownership, why not put resources into developing and promoting smaller, more reasonable personal transportation? e-bikes are neat and all but let's see you pitch them to people living in northern Canada and see how long it takes them to laugh you out of the room.
I'm proposing we force everyone to live efficiently so climate change doesn't kill billions of people and we don't waste trillions of dollars on redundant infrastructure. There so much fucking waste involved in keeping these little towns alive. If they don't like it, they can also become one of the essential rural workers that can continue to live out here.
Private vehicle ownership needs to be abolished because it creates a ridiculous excess of redundant machines and infrastructure for no reason. Always needing wider roads, more road maintenance, more gas stations, more cars and trucks, more power lines, more suburbs, more and more and more extra waste that makes life worse overall for the rest of humanity.
No