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(lemmy.world)
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this post was submitted on 12 Dec 2023
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1.The countries they came from. They are Jewish settlers. I.e they came from other countries to settle I'm palestianian land. So they should return to the (mostly European) countries they came from. Or they can join they can emigrate elsewhere if they don't feel safe lying in the bed they made with how they treated Palestinians.
Just like any other decolonisation effort, the colonisers need to leave or they can stay and try and integrate or face retribution for their colonisation. Are you going to feel bad for British colonisers that got caught and displaced during revolutions in the BE?
Maybe you're not doing the math on the age of the average Israeli person. There's been more than enough time since the creation of that country for multiple generations to be born there. They don't have some other country to go home to, because that is their home.
If they can't return to the country of their or their parents origin, then they need to go through the process of becoming legal citizens of Palestine.
Having kids their does not entitle them to the land they were born on. Russia has occupied crimea for 10 years now, there will be thousands of Russians that were born there. Does that mean Crimea belongs to Russia? Does that mean Ukraine calling for its historic borders to be recognised is genocide?
You do know that the ancestors of many Israelis are native to that area, yes? Why do they have less rights to the land and their culture than the other groups who live there?
Other than the few that lived their during ottoman rule the vast vast majority of Jews immigrated after the mandate. So the only way they have ancestors that are native is if you go back some 2,500+ years.
And if we want to do that than anyone can trace there ancestors back to Africa and you can excuse European colonialism in Africa the same way you are excusing Jewish colonialism.
The vast majority of Sabra have ancestors who fled and were exiled from Muslim countries in the region. More than half of the Jews living there are Mizrahi, many have ancestors who are native to the area. An additional 20 % of Israeli are Arabs who have ancestors in the diverse ethnic groups who populated the area, long before the land was separated into Israel and Palestine.
The separation between Israel, Westbank and Gaza is more a religious than an ethnic one. Since Gaza and Westbank want a pure Muslim state. But original the are la wasn't pure Muslim. The ongoing conflict between the Muslim and non-Muslims groups in the area predates the separation and was one of the factors which led to the founding of Israel.
The idea of European colonizers is just propaganda used to paint a black and white image of the situation.
Lmao you're kidding right? Litterally the entire reason Israel exists is because of Britian and the UN wanting somewhere for their Jews to go, because they were still seen as a problem and they would rather have them in their own country than Continuin to live in their countries and now almost half of everyone in Israel is descended from those Jews that came from Europe and America.
There is absolutely no way you can spin this story so doesn't involve western colonialism.
He'll even if it was 90% none European descendents that wouldn't mean anything. Plenty of countries in Afrjca were colonised but didn't end up with large European populations. Does that mean the rush for Africa didn't happen.
The majority of people living in Israel are not Europeans. Perhaps read something else than just propaganda for a change.
What do you suggest gay and queer people, muslims and women who want humans rights are supposed to do?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_Jews#:~:text=Nearly%20half%20of%20all%20Israeli,from%2C%20Ethiopian%20and%20Indian%20Jews.
How about you read something other than propaganda for a change?
Move to countries that reject them? Being an oppressed minority does not give you the right to steal other people's land and commit atrocities on them.
So you're calling for decolonization of all countries in the world? Every person should immigrate back to their country of origin? And how long back is "country of origin" defined? Do you acknowledge that all Jewish people originate from Israel or is that something we need to debate as well?
Obviously not, lots of countries have already been decolonised and most over aren't colonised in the first place. Or if you argue the toss (which is all you seek to be able to do) they were colonised so long ago that there is no way to actually decolonise them. Like say England.
But if you come down to earth for a moment. Israel was created <100 years ago, and there still exists Palestine and its people that had their land stolen from. Much of which was stolen very recently. Acting like there's no difference between this situation and every other country is dishonest at best and I'm sure you're already aware of that.
Now do you actually care about this or a you just trying to win an Internet argument against someone who disagreed with you.
"there still exists Palestine and its people". No. Before the state of Israel there was the british occupation. Before that the turkish ottoman empire. Before that there was an Egyptian rule and so on and so on. There were wars and the rule of this specific piece of land changed. At no point in history was there ever a Palstinian country. There is no Palestinian that can trace his lineage to some Palestinian hundreds of years ago. During all of history there were both jewish and arabs living in Israel. Calling the jewish people of Israel "colonists" is trying to change history and paint it as if jews came on ships to this country like conquistadors. After WW2, the UN decided that, maybe, after trying to exterminate the jewish people, it would make sense to give them some small pice of land to officially call their own. The arabs, instead of accepting the split launched a war in whclich they lost. And yes, many people were evicted from theor homes. Such is war. Then, they had multiple chances to accept peace offerings and build a country, instead they kept rejecting the offers and kept launching attacks at Israel. Culminating with the oct/7 attack which is where we find ourselves today. As i mentioned earlier, you and many around the world would like the Jews to just die. That won't happen. What you should be doing is making memes about Hamas and how they keep enriching their leaders pockets and building terror infrastructure instead of helping the Palestinian people.
This is actually the stupidest fucking argument you could possibly make on this subject.
Show me when an Indian country existed before British rule, or a South African country. Does that mean India had no right to freedom? No of course not. So why does their not being a specific country of Palestine before now invalidate the Palestinians right to freedom.
I actually laughed out loud at this. This would be great comedic timing in a political satire. Accusing me of trying to change history then in the next fucking line you do it yourself. Israel wasn't some magnanimous compensation for the holocaust. Jews were still looked down on by most people in the west so this was the Jews chance to escape but for the governemnts in the west it was a solution to the Jewish "problem", literally just an excuse to get rid of the Jews. So they set up a colony in Palestine, since they didn't give a shit about what the Arabs wanted either. There is no "well akshually it's not a colony because a tiny minority of Jews already lived their" it's a colony by every definition.
And I really can't be arsed to go through your whole "the Arabs were actually in the wrong for not accepting having their land unilaterally stolen from them" bullshit and you outright hand-waving of Israeli occupation and settlements. Just pretty clear you don't actually give a shit about any sort of morals or reasoning. You're either here because peoples lives are fun little arguments for you, or you made up your mind a while ago and no amount of information to the contrary will ever change your mind so you just causally dismiss it in order to stick to your opinions.
So with that said I'm just going to block you because you're either a bored troll or an actual morally bankrupt piece of shit, and I don't want to deal with either one.
Excellent debate. Thanks.
Then why did the Brits use the word Palestine?
Are you like a disinformation bot??? How do you even suggest to prove this claim???
Wait. To counter my argument that there is no Palestine you provide a snapshot of the mandate recognizing the historical connection of the Jewish people to the land? Doesn't that counter your arguments? Yes, the british called this peice of land Palestine. Do you know where the name originates from? The Jewish Bible where the Philistines are mentioned as large red headed folk probably originating from somewhere near Greece. So do the current Palestinians claim to be their decendants? Jewish people have always lived in the region of Israel which was under the occupation of numerous other empries. The arab folk living in Israel prior to 1948 can trace their heritages to a myriad of neighboring countries such as Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt, Iraq and so forth (Some of their surnames are a clear indication of that).
You didn't answer my question. If Palestine never existed then why did everyone in the area call it Palestine?
Also sorry to break this to you but the Bible is no basis for history or genetics rofl