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this post was submitted on 27 Dec 2023
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Stuffing words in my mouth isn't a debate yo. But if it makes you feel like an adult feel free to do it I guess.
In the meantime,. Simply pointing out that genocide is a term above and beyond Israel's conduct and y'all go fucking nuts over the simple fact.
As I stated before: USA killed way more Japs during the Firebombing campaign of Tokyo and 2x nuclear weapons upon cities. There is a huge difference between brutality (and what is forgivable in war) vs genocide, the unforgivable.
But y'all are apparently unstudied in History and everything is just black and white to you. Life is more than just Nazi / not a Nazi.
Erm. Geniva conventions.... Like rules on how to surrender or wearing uniforms is about protecting your side.
If a soldier shoots at the enemy and then runs into a Hospital, and keeps on shooting, Geniva Conventions are rightfully suspended and you are legally allowed to shoot at the Hospital.
Do you know how war works? We have rules. If you don't follow the rules the enemy doesn't have to follow the rules.
Hamas is an irregular army that fights using dishonorable tactics. They do not deserve Geneva Conventions because they themselves do not follow them.
It's like how the Russians attacked those surrendering Ukrainians on camera. That's a war crime. What does that mean? It means that Ukrainians don't feel like performing official surrender routines as per war conventions anymore.
There's no one out there who enforces war crimes. It's all just a code of honor. But if the enemy doesn't follow the code, then the code is rightfully suspended.
It has nothing to do with humanity and everything to do with practicality.
Gotcha, so because hamas isn't playing dress up, it's ok to murder children. After all, it's very practical to just shoot and bomb everything. A final solution of sorts.
This saddens me because my right wing buddies warned about how dumb y'all were with the Nazi comparisons. I didn't believe him, but you've convinced me.
Last word of advice: stop proving my far right friends correct. What you are doing right now is such a hilariously bad argument that it's literally pushing me to agree with the far right.
Fortunately, there are other, smarter, people to discuss this issue with around here.
I highly suggest you talk with someone with war experience by the way. It's clear you are ignorant on those matters. There are plenty of veterans who can tell you about the importance of uniforms and how/why uniforms protect civilians.
War goals will be met by warring parties. The point is to give fair fights to differentiate civilians from military. If you forget military uniforms then yes, it basically condemns the local population to getting shot up by the soldiers. No one likes it when this happens, but yeah, you need to dress differently and highlight yourself as a legitimate target as per modern rules and conventions of war.
That's the rule. That's the Geneva convention. If you don't like it, then change the rule I guess or something, but good luck getting the United Nations to agree on a new set of rules.
These conventions and agreements are far bigger than you or me. It's not about like or dislike of the rules. I'm just letting ya know what the rules that have been established are.
Perhaps if you even just fucking acknowledge that killing civilian children is a bad thing we'd stop viewing you and your rightwing buddies as nothing more than fascists cheering on a fascist government.
Then why haven't you ACTUALLY addressed it? Your argument is "Killing children is fine so long as we are fighting terrorists". That's not addressing the morality of what Israel is doing, it's giving them a blank check to do whatever in the name of fighting the bad guys.
Oh, fuck right off with this. I absolutely have friends with military experience and there is such a thing as "rules of engagement". Guess what wouldn't have happened in the US military? We would not have shot unarmed civilians with their hands up waving a white flag. Perhaps go talk to someone with ACTUAL military experience and not your far right commando buddies who larp as military officers in their camps. You don't shoot until you are shot at. Unless you are israel and you are just trying to kill arabs.
You sure? You don't seem very upset that this is happening.
You like to talk about the Geneva conventions, so how about you fucking read them.
Article 3 https://www.ohchr.org/en/instruments-mechanisms/instruments/geneva-convention-relative-protection-civilian-persons-time-war
Do you see the line in there that says "unless the other side isn't playing dressup, then all bets are off". Because I sure as fuck don't. Israel is killing unarmed civilians. A fact that is undisputed because they fucking killed their own unarmed hostages.
The Geneva convention does not have a "you don't have to follow this if the other side isn't" clause. Or if it does, actually cite it rather than continuing this thread repeating that dumbass line over and over again.
Sure its a bad thing.
Lulz. You can't even read. The passage you're quoting is about prisoners. Please man...
Seriously, talk to a soldier. Your ignorance is really obvious at this point. And doubling down by copying/pasting random text from the Geneva Conventions isn't doing you any favors.
Oh, where does it say "only about POW"s? Can you actually quote the line that says "this only applies to POWs". I'll wait.
Perhaps before you go off about reading comprehension you pull the mote out of your own eye. That'll surely help you read.
Fair. Looking at your post above and it seems like you've put more work at it and it was unfair of me to brush it off entirely.
So I'll give you that.
Hamas literally stages ambushes by waving white flags in this conflict. They're incredibly despicable people.
Even US Troops didn't have to deal with this level of depravity in Iraq or Afghanistan.
It's important to keep the white-flag conventions a convention. Otherwise, the other side becomes more brutal. Shooting at people while waiving white flags isn't the norm, but when the norm is broken my combatants like Hamas life gets harder for everyone.
Do it enough times and yes, even a regular trained military will lose their ability to differentiate.
How gracious of you. So now that you admit "Trust me the Geneva convention says this" rant which was actually completely uninformed garbage, Why should I believe you are actually educated at all on the topic and not just spewing memes from your right wing "army trained" buddys?
Can you actually call out Israel for committing war crimes or does the Geneva convention no longer matter because it's inconvenient to your argument?
Sir, my inbox has been filled with bullshit liberals who don't know the first thing about Geneva conventions. I got confused between posts and suddenly, your post popped up. Yes, I made a mistake ignoring your post and your thought out statement. I'll try to remember your name next time because it is clear that you actually have a degree of understanding of this conflict.
Why should I believe you're doing nothing but dogpiling upon the one person who stuck up to discuss in this thread? Give me a break, its not easy to push back against a dogpile on online discussion. There's a lot of dumb shit being said in this thread, and I got confused between you and some other people. But that's fine, I'll take my L here, its a calculated risk when I lash out like that.
Geneva conventions are just conventions dude. No one exists to prosecute war crimes and you know it. The thing about the Middle East and what makes it so difficult is that so many geneva conventions have been broken that no one seems to care about them anymore. Building back the peace and trust to even do normal warfare is difficult as a result. Now taking the article at play here: Hamas isn't supposed to take hostages of peaceful civilian populations (ie: attendees of a music festival) to begin with. Do you care about that? Or are you just randomly meming left-wing pro-Hamas statements and ignoring the war crimes they commit?
I'm perfectly fine and find it acceptable for this discussion to end with us both agreeing that Geneva Conventions are a joke in the context of Hamas vs Israel btw, if you want me to fast forward for a bit.
My point remains clear. No one enforces Geneva conventions in practice. They're conventions of honorable fighting in practice. If one side breaks a Geneva convention, it simply invites the other side to also ignore the convention. That's how it works, and that's how it always has worked.
LMFAO. You were JUST talking about the sanctity of them as rules that everyone has to follow and how they gave Israel carte blanch permission to kill civilians. With "What are you going to do about it, get the UN to update their policies?". This is what fascism looks like. You are a fascist propagandist.
Well... that's fine.
Thanks for the discussion I guess. Apologies for confusing you with someone else posting here. There's plenty of people still dogpiling on me right now so if you don't mind, we can wrap up this discussion between you and me here.
A reasonable discussion requires trust. If my earlier mistake broke that trust then that's my mistake.