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this post was submitted on 31 Dec 2023
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I believe it is a good idea, not only will it foster a closer feeling of unity and understanding between citizens, it will also be something all citizens have in common, and something you can talk about with anyone.
I am a bit sad that I never got to do it, I did muster, but failed the hearing test, at the time I was relieved, but now, I miss it sort of.
Being forced to risk your life for something you don't believe in won't create a feeling of unity.
So you don't believe in fighting against invasion by a foregin power?
In what reality would Germany ever get invaded and not deserve it?
Why do you think they deserve it now?
They're sending weapons to Saudi Arabia and Israel. They put sanctions on Afghanistan that are causing a famine. They're funding Frontex, which kills migrants in the Mediterranean and those who make it get put into concentration camps. And that's just some of it. The German government are war criminals and serial human rights abusers. Anyone who takes up arms to defend these people is complicit.
And don't forget Germany never underwent denazification
While I don't know how accurate this statement is, I do wonder how you would go about doing it now, so far after the war.
Where would you even start?
What criteria would you use to determine the nazi index of every person, what index value would be the threashhold, who would decide on who is nazi and who is nice.
It would be very easy just take people who use to be in the party and kick them out like they should have at the get-go. Not that it matters because they have very little animus to do so.
Do the Nazi party still exist in germany?
I believe there's a party with a lot of the same values fighting to be allowed onto the ballots.
That’s not the point. Nazi officials, generals and party members were integrated into the nascent west German state and NATO right after WW2. Explicitly by the US to help “fight communism”. Cause you know, the best anti-communists are the Nazis…
Oh, I know that parts of Germany didn't go through denazification, but my question was more about how to solve that problem today.
Ok, I agree with ypu on some of the points, and I can see why you disagree with the actions of the military
So you don't believe in freedom? Being forced by anyone to give your life for something is slavery.
I absolutely believe in freedom, but I see mandatory military service as a way of supporting the freedom for the rest of the population.
You do your service and hand it off to the next guy, you get skills and training, the country gets huge number of people who know the basics in a real situation.
There are also plenty of tasks in the military that does not require weapons or killing, in a disaster the services are used to support the civilian society, clearing roads, fighting fires, building temporary bridges, distributing water/food/shelter, providing emergency healthcare, setting up communications.
BTW, you use a very narrow definition of slavery.
I'm sure someone in the military is tasked with cooking food for the whole army but in order to teach someone to prepare a meal you don't put them through mandatory military service which main goal is to bake soldiers capable of shooting on command.
If you believe in forcing everyone with jail as a penalty to learn how to kill people and to obey superior orders you have a narrow definition of freedom.
Freedom is perpetuated through liberty not through constraints
You mention freedom a lot in comparison to military service, but in no society are you completely free, you have laws to follow and you have taxes to pay, so the freedom argument falls a bit flat when you use it so often.
I see military service similar to a tax bill, since if no one wants to do it, the need doesn't go away, it is still needed, and mandatory military service is s good way to solve it.
You have taxes to pay because someone say so and is forcing everyone with force to pay. If you don't pay taxes you get labelled as a criminal and the guards come pick you and escort you to jail, even if the tax you don't want to pay is unjust. If no one wanted to join the military you would have no wars to begin with, russia and israel which are two countries waging war and currently invading another country both have mandatory military service which you get punish if you don't attend.
People can fight for freedom without being forced through a course that aims at taking away their individuality and self-will to turn them into checkers at rulers commands.
If you think that individual freedom fighters are as effective as an army with a command structure, then you are just plain wrong, removing individuallity during fighting is a feature not a bug, obviously individual soldier's talents are an asset and should be used by the military as far as practical, but in the end a soldier is a standardized tool that fit a specific criteria, else they would not be as effective.
If your goal is freedom an army of people who's individuallity has been removed won't get you an inch close to it. If you look around yourself no actual army brings up freedom but war around the globe.
Mandatory military service does not strip the individuallity off of a person, sure while in the military you loose a bit of individuallity, but once you leave the military you get it back.
You are contradicting yourself
There's no invasion?
Correct, I am glad you sre keeping up!
My question was hypothetical.
Your question was nonsensical
I disagree.
That's just dumb. War is good make friends ugh ugh bonk
Technically it is true, war has created plenty of friendships that would not have existed otherwise.
However, that is not what I wrote, I wrote that compulsory millitary service is in general a good idea and that one of benefits is unity and understanding between citizens.
I know, I know, I'm making fun of you
Why are you doing that?
Because you are finding a trivial benefit to something bad and pretending that's normal. You can go be a scout, have a sports team, a million other things to have camaraderie. But no, you want the fucking military. In a time when everybody is jerking off to war and finding excuses to enact shit you want the army because friends.
Yes you are right on all those points, but the topic was mandatory military service, not scouting, joining a sports team or a million other things.
Is it strange that I focus on the topic of conversation and not list irrelevant topics?
No, not at all, it's just that you support mandatory military service.
Neither of the other options are mandatory, and the strange thing is that you support the one that is besides being mandatory it is also deadly, if you're in the system at the wrong time. You think that the possibility of making friends counterweights the high chance of death and life long injuries, and that's just crazy.
If nobody wants to do the job, maybe the solution is to make it more attractive, instead of making it mandatory.
If you want to bring people together create a program to do such thing. Forcing them into a shooting at people and dropping bombs course is the worst thing you could possibly come up with.
You're able to refuse active military service and will be put into a civil service position. No one is forced to "shoot at people".
In your mind perhaps, in my country before they abolished military service you would get fined and sent to jail if you refused to go and they would teach everyone at last once how to shot a gun towards targets made to resemble human beings.
I'm talking about Germany as this article is talking about the potential reintroduced of mandatory military service there.
Again, I said it was a good idea, not the be all end all of bringing people together, that is just one benefit of mandatory service.
You guys are really trying to misunderstand me.
I'm with ya OP.
First world militaries do a hell of a lot more than fight. For example, talking to a young guy at a party last night and the older host. Kid's a Navy SIGINT guy, host is about to retire from commercial sailing. They got to chatting and the kid had been monitoring threats in the area the host's ship had passed through in '21.
After Hurricane Ivan the Florida Guard rolled in and saved our asses. After Katrina my ex-FIL led the Mississippi guard into south MS. They cut houses in half to open the roads.
In japan when a tsunami or earthquake hit the yakuza always help the locals, that does not make them any good.
Firefighters are not teach how to attack countries with biological weapons or psyop
Disagree, I'm quite happy I never had to go.
You are very welcome to disagree, this how we discuss and exchange viewpoints.