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this post was submitted on 24 Jan 2024
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Those of us who remember the Orange Revolution understand the incredible political attack that Ukraine has been under for decades. Russia has expended unprecedented expenditure understanding democracy in order to develop mechanisms to undermine it.
It's extremely unfortunate the reality in which former Soviet states exist. While it's distasteful, it's certainly necessary given a reality that westerners barely understand... Which is kind of shocking to me given the outcome of Jan 6.
I think when the war is over, it would be appropriate for him to not even run. Hard men make hard decisions when under existential threat. I'm glad Ukraine had a Churchill when Ukraine needed a Churchill... But when that time comes for a peacetime leader, it doesn't mean he wasn't the right man in the right place at the right time.
It is from a position of privilege and ignorance that we criticize the necessary actions of wartime leaders.
You think necessary actions is absorbing and legitimising far-right and Nazi militias? Literally banning and arresting left-wing activists? Kidnapping men in the middle of the night to conscript them? Bombing indiscriminately civilians on the East? Bro fuck off.
Churchill was a genocidal racist maniac btw, if he’s your idea of a hero, I understand where you’re coming from. And again, bro fuck right the fuck off.
I'm continually perplexed by people who claim to be anti-nazi but are here to light up (checks notes) Winston Churchill.
I think there's room for "Churchill was instrumental in the fight against fascism" and "Churchill was himself racist and enacted racist policies that lead to genocide" to coexist.
In the context of a good faith conversation, I agree.
When people are bending over backwards to intentionally push well-defined buttons to drive state-level propaganda, I do not.
It's so incredibly well crafted, this doofuses original post. He argues that Zelenski is a nightmare to the Left-wing.
Why? Because it's a position and delivery crafted to the general Lemmy populace. "I'm left wing! Is Zelensky against me? Should I be reconsidering my position? Am I against Ukraine, because I'm certainly for left-wing stuff"
It's nausiatingly transparent propaganda. Ever meter of Ukraine under Russian occupation, it is illegal to even SUGGEST that LGBT is good, it's ILLEGAL to merely express POSITIVE SENTIMENT. While we can agree in Ukraine it isn't perfect, it's NOT EVEN CLOSE to the oppression in Russia.
There is nuance that adults in good faith can examine. The FBI investigation into Russian interference in US elections pointed out that the EXACT vulnerability in western sensibilities that their propeganda exploits is the concept that every assertion warrants a discussion. Just cycle wedge issues. Drop in, drop a bomb, fuck off.
It's entirely appropriate to just say "No, you're clearly a bad faith actor and I'm not going to give the illusion of legitimacy of your claims by digging into the nuances with you"
You really seem misinformed. Wagner has more association with nazism. Even Putin's right-hand man, his modern Rasputin if you will, is a literal dyed-in-the-wool neo-nazi who wrote the plans Putin is literally carrying out.
Russia's invasion of Ukraine is of no difference than Hitler's justification to invade Poland "for ethnic Germans."
At the end of the day, the Jewish leader Zelenskyy who lost family in the Holocaust, disrupted the sockpuppetry that was originally taking place in Ukraine. As the war continued, the remnants of corruption have continued to be weeded out, though still some remain.
You really seem misinformed. There are Nazis in Russia, nobody said there weren’t. But Russia didn’t absorb the Nazis into their government and state apparatus, gave them leadership positions in ministries etc.
And Nazi Germany invaded Poland because of Lebensraum, basically German Manifest Destiny. Russia invaded Ukraine because of NATO and the color revolution in 2014.
Yes Russia did, what are you smoking? I just told you Putin's right-hand man is a nazi. You just ignored that conveniently lol. RT, the Kremlin mouthpiece, spouts nazi propaganda on the daily.
What absorption of nazism in Ukraine are you talking about and when, specifically?
No, Russia didn't even Ukraine "because NATO," considering Ukraine wasn't in NATO and intentionally didn't join to stop Russian aggression. Yet Russia did so anyway.
Ironically the DEFENSIVE Alliance that is NATO would've saved many lives of women and children from the brutal Russian invasion because Russia knows they'd get demolished by NATO.
You are clearly drinking far too much Russian vodka, my friend.
Finally, please learn your history regarding WWII:
But you're right: this was just a convenient excuse. Just as Russia is using it as a convenient excuse for their own sort of Lebensraum, basically Russian Manifest Destiny. Or wait -- did you not read Putin's 5,000 word essay where he spells this out...?
Assuming you're talking about the Azov Batallion, if you are fighting a war for your country's survival and you have a rabid band of ethnonationalists, who clearly suck in terms of their views and beliefs, but are otherwise willing to die to protect your country, why wouldn't you let them?
… I’m talking about right-sector, azov, national corps etc. They were brought into leadership and legitimized as part of the national guard and army. That is inexcusable. You would really side with Nazis to defend “your country”? After the war is over, Ukraine will become an ultra-right wing state. The state apparatus will have been completely overtaken by these militias and groups.
That’s like saying the UK should’ve legitimized and absorbed the British Fascist Party during WW2, made Oswald Mosley the minister of defense (which was done in Ukraine…) etc. That’s insane, but it does show how you liberals see the world. Scratch a liberal etc etc
Do you think Nazis don't exist in modern western militaries? Also, you think Nazis are liberal? You seem like either a troll or an idiot.
Azov et. al., literally make up <1% of the total UAF. lol what are you talking about? These people just have a common enemy and it's all-hands-on-deck to oust the foreign invader. The same thing even happened in WWII America when pro-Nazi sects of our society took up arms against Japan.
Yknow what? If nazis are willing to die to defend your country, let them.
Right I don't get what's so hard to comprehend.
In America we have an arguably bigger base of right-wing nazi extremists. The Base, Oathkeepers, 3%ers, Proud Boys, etc.
... And you know what? If someone invaded our country that may actually be the only time my bleeding heart leftist would share a fox hole with them out of common goals.
That doesn't make USA a nazi state lol. But of course, let's not pretend this was ever a legitimate argument by Russia in the first place.