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Way to go, guys!
(lemmy.world)
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this post was submitted on 24 Jan 2024
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All leftists are in tears, Biden is a center-right Capitalist. Leftists should vote for Biden, but they can understandably be upset that they have to vote for a Neoliberal just to prevent a fascist, while liberals and fascists get to gleefully trot to the ballot box and vote for someone that actually represents their views.
You want leftists to side with you happily? Maybe try appealing to leftists, instead of running on the basis of not being a fascist.
We're headed for another 2000 election. A handful of campaign flaks are going to Brooks Brothers Riot a few counties in a red state with the blessing of a governor hostile to the very idea of democratic governance. Biden is going to meekly surrender after the election is straight up stolen on national television by far-right courts. And then the national media is going to find the real villain - not the thugs terrorizing polling places nationwide, not the nerds hemming and hawing about Rule of Law while the books are rewritten under their noses, not the national media fabricating bullshit smears 24/7 to keep the race up as a spectacle - but a dorky little 3rd party environmentalist nerd who dared to suggest that better things are possible.
Biden will shit the bed and Trump will run out the back door with the mattress, while every screaming Twitter avi will point the finger at this cycle's Ralph Nader.
I mean yeah. That's exactly it. One party is running on not changing anything in particular but keeping everyone exactly where they are, and the other is running on the idea of hurting people and will actually do it with power.
People don't like to feel trapped in a bad situation even if others feel great about being trapped in a good one. The feeling of being unable to do anything or even trying to do anything will so much more disenfranchise the vote base than an Internet comment will but it's definitely compounding.
But when you have a party run on a promise and meet their goals then it looks appealing and people will think they can sand off the rough edges cause at least there is movement, ignoring that the rough edges are what grabs more angry people.
I actually don't see this election going well without Biden slamming into the fight like a WWE star trying to be a fan favorite and actually getting a win. Or standing up at least and taking the hits to the face to prove they care. Apathy and comfort, the plagues of the Democrats right now.
Out of the people in this thread who are complaining about Biden and the Democrats, how many of them have joined the party, organized, and have pushed to make changes from inside the party?
You know the answer, it's none of them. Because most of them are here to make sure Trump wins, and the rest are those who are susceptible to that type of propaganda.
Meanwhile, Democrats push for a two-state solution: https://www.politico.com/live-updates/2024/01/24/congress/reasserting-the-two-state-solution-00137623
Republicans push for genocide:https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/nov/10/florida-republican-michelle-salzman-palestine
I mean I actually helped the campaign for several local government positions, including judges and State attorney. When all of those failed I actually tried running for a position myself getting with a "progressive election aid" group who told me I was too poor to run and that they would help me if I had some rich relatives I could reach out to for financial support, and then after that joined a socialist group that fell apart with no action available because there was no available pushback on the government with every position pretty much going to incumbents. I participate in debates. Email and mail my representatives, and participate in rallies.
I also criticize Biden.
You are really just saying what you want to think of the people who complain but not actually accepting that everyone is a complex person with their own fucked reasons for anything they do. It might be simple or complex but I doubt even the majority care that they are making Trump win they just want to lament and feel seen. Like everyone else.
Painting with a broad brush is easy but it misses the details. Individuals pushing against a larger system is going to result in practically nothing but somehow we fail to organize because we don't get results at the smaller levels.
You can't just blame the people who don't know better, while ignoring that little effort is made to push them back against this apathy. It takes the people who believe in this helping get those voices heard too not just told to shut up and get in line.
Username checks out.
neoliberalism is fascism
That's what exactly no theory does to someone.
Neoliberalism leads to and enables fascism down the road, but itself is not fascism. Neoliberalism is letting Capitalism loose, which will result in Capitalists gaining power and creating an absolute bourgeois state to oppress the Workers, typically by providing an "enemy" as a response to increasing disparity and a slipping of the grasp of Capital.
Fascism is a response to Neoliberalism, but is not the same, and in the US election the Neoliberal party and the fascist party vary significantly when it comes to social issues. Violence against minority populations is vastly increased under republican governance, and those I love are not privledged enough to not be in danger.
no, neoliberalism is fascism. liberal democracies are breeding grounds for fascism.
You contradicted yourself. Neoliberalism is not fascism, it provides the breeding grounds for fascism.
neoliberalism is fascism. I didn't contradict myself.
Elaborate. You said it's fascism, then said liberal democracy is a breeding ground for fascism. Which is it? Is all reactionary ideology fascism?
This is what I mean. You have precisely no grounding in theoretical knowledge, and cannot understand the differences between a fascist movement that results from Neoliberalism, to Neoliberalism itself. That's like saying a tadpole is an adult frog. Same species, Capitalist, but completely different stages.
fascism is a strictly regimented society in which every institution serves the state. under Mussolini the most obvious expression was corporatism and in fact that is the purest definition of fascism. sure, eco will talk about The racial stuff as Central but I don't think Mussolini ever would. I think that he only saw that as part of strengthening the state just like almost every other country who was practicing eugenics at the time did, just like the United States.
fascists come to power out of liberal democracies because liberal democracies are incapable of preventing them. All they have to do is pitch themselves as " third positionist" like clinton did.
neoliberalism is fascism.
You explained what I already said: Neoliberalism creates the conditions for fascism. When one candidate is a Neoliberal, they leave the door open for fascism. When one candidate is a fascist, you're straight jumping to fascism.
Delaying the slide to fascism by voting neoliberal is the preferred course of action.
You're a fed, you have no knowledge of theory and exist purely to spoil the pot.
A tiger cub is still a tiger. You can cuddle and pet a tiger cub. Even let your kids play with it. But a full grown tiger? That's dangerous to have around, especially if it gets hungry.
Sure, so then there's no difference in voting to be locked in a room alone with a tiger cub vs an adult tiger, got it.
The tiger cub buys time to make meaningful grassroots change, even if it still continues the path to an eventual adult tiger.
after 4 years, all tigers are adult tigers.
Nope. Obama didn't result in fascism even after 8 years.
You're a fed.
huh. do you remember 2015? chuds running around california knifing queer kids, marching in the street shouting for trump. then, a year later, guess who was elected.
Yep, and it got worse after Trump got elected. Obama wasn't the fascism, even if fascism is rising thanks to Neoliberalism.
neoliberalism is fascism. obama is fascist.
Social Democracy is Communism. Bernie is a Communist.
No, moderate policies are not extremist policies.
i don't consider obama moderate. he was the most extreme deporter in chief we've ever seen. he ran out of bombs persuing imperialist goals. he killed american citizens without due process. he was a well-propagandized fascist.
Obama was evil. Republicans are worse, especially Trump. Siding with the worse evil does in fact make you reactionary.
i'm not siding with republicans or trump.
Yes you are. If you aren't voting for Biden, the only other option is Trump. Abstaining from voting, or spoiling your vote, is a vote for Trump.
You are nothing more than a virtue signaling reactionary that does not at all care about the Proletariat.
no, i expect to have more than 2 choices on my ballot.
this is election misinformation.
obama ran out of bombs and deported more people than bush or trump.
in fact, at the outset of his presidency, he promised a new era of cooperation between business and government. that's literally mussolini's fascism.
It is not literally musollinis fascism. Certainly a start, but if you're legitimately saying mussolini is equivalent to Obama then again, you're a theoryless fed, and likely an actual fascist trying to commit fascist apologia.
Please, read theory for once.
mussolini's fascism, once, had a start as well.
It did, yes.
You are advocating that there is no difference between fascism and pre-fascism, so letting fascism happen is okay.
This is reactionary behavior and in no way helps the Proletariat.
no, i'm saying that fascism is bad and it should be resisted at every step with no compromise.
But you aren't. You're supporting fascism just so you can virtue signal and LARP as a leftist without doing any actual Materialist analysis.
i'm not supporting fascism: i'm calling it out everywhere.
No you aren't. You're committing fascist apologia by calling everything Capitalist fascism, and enabling fascism by intentionally spoiling your vote. You are a reactionary and have done no Materialist analysis.
no, i'm not.