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this post was submitted on 30 Jan 2024
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I do not want Russia to win, but aren't we really getting to the point that Biden needs to cut his losses on aiding Ukraine and the world will have to hope that Europe steps up?
Edit: If you disagree, please tell me at what point the concessions to the Republicans are too much to agree to in order to fund sending weapons to Ukraine.
Nothing short of domestic capitulation to fascism is too much to stop support for Ukraine. We can reverse shitty policies. We can't reverse the destruction of sovereignty and genocide of a people by an imperialist power.
Isn't denying desperate people asylum capitulation to fascism?
If that were the case, we would have been a fascist state long ago.
There are multiple steps toward fascism and shutting down the border is absolutely one of them.
I don't think we agree on what fascism is, then.
It hits at least two points on Eco's 14 features of fascism-
Fear of difference. “The first appeal of a fascist or prematurely fascist movement is an appeal against the intruders. Thus Ur-Fascism is racist by definition.”
Appeal to social frustration. “One of the most typical features of the historical fascism was the appeal to a frustrated middle class, a class suffering from an economic crisis or feelings of political humiliation, and frightened by the pressure of lower social groups.”
https://www.openculture.com/2016/11/umberto-eco-makes-a-list-of-the-14-common-features-of-fascism.html
There's a reason that's it's 14 points, and not 2 points. I can name any number of things that fit individual points or small combinations of points, yet are very distinctly not fascism or a step towards fascism. Fascism is a movement, an ideology, a worldview, not a single policy.
A movement that Republicans embrace, so how many concessions should they be given?
As I said, any number of concessions on policy that do not increase their power (ie capitulation to fascism).
Giving them what they want does increase their power.
Do you think they're going to allow the border to be opened again and asylum seekers allowed in again one of these days because they love immigrants so much?
93% of Americans share some concern about border. Do your really think holding out on behalf of principles and us 7% of sane individuals strengthens the non-fascists, in a democratic system?
... do you think that's what the current compromise bill being proposed does? And do you think that any policy enacted will be unable to be repealed under a non-fascist government?
Sorry, is "shares some concerns about the border" the same as "wanting to shut everything down and stop anyone from coming in?"
And if shutting down the border is not what is being proposed, maybe Biden shouldn't be pledging to shut down the border.
We're a country whose most famous symbol has a poem welcoming people seeking asylum at its base. The irony seems lost.
The use of strong rhetoric can sway people who are vulnerable to emotional appeals on issues they understand little about. Like the majority of America on the border.
I don't disagree. I actually mentioned that earlier today, in fact. But sanity and virtue are not always winning issues in a democracy - or in politics in general. We work with what we have, not what we want.
I am just a poor old peckerwood from South Texas but here is how I see it.
Putin is a strong man dictator who murders his rivals and dreams of a reunified Russian Empire. He committed atrocities in Chechnya and no one did shit. He took Crimea and even downed a commercial airliner and no one did anything. Well, that's not entirely true, they filed sanctions and those sanctions were working all right, maybe not enough teeth but it was what it was. Then comes Trump and all those sanctions were rolled back. This emboldened the strong man and he invaded Ukraine outright just like he did Chechnya. Painting NATO as the aggressor and claiming Nazis run Ukraine he invaded the country. He promised he wouldn't he even signed a treaty saying he wouldn't. Then he did. Where does it stop? Ukraine? Moldova? Finland? When does the world say "Enough, you can't do this." When Putin promised not to invade Ukraine the United States and some other NATO countries made a promise outside of NATO to defend Ukraine in the "unlikely" event Putin was a full-of-shit liar who fully intended to invade Ukraine as soon as possible. Guess what ends up he was a lying piece of shit and here we are. Now we spend $75 billion to help prop up the Ukrainians and they are holding back Russia, they may not be winning but they are causing a little "Vietnam" for Russia. With the Internet and the ubiquity of phones and cameras, the whole world sees apartments bombed and cities targeted, and the hold Putin has on Russia erodes.
Now World War II in Europe cost the United States on its own $2 trillion and 200k lives which would be the equivalent of about $30 trillion in 2024 money. So here we are. If left alone Putin intends to keep going, he has said it and he has shown his hand with the invasion of Ukraine even after promising he wouldn't. I don't see any outcome where he stops with Ukraine. Even if he dies the people set to inherit his empire share his goals. So now it becomes a numbers game for me. Spend $75 billion arming the Ukrainians or cut our losses and eventually spend $30 trillion and 200k+ lives fighting a war in Europe to stop Russian expansion into sovereign nations that don't want to be Russian. We could walk away, break our treaties, and abandon our obligations but then what? What would that say to China, where would that leave our allies in Asia? How would it affect trade around the world? What would the ramifications be to our daily lives? Cost of goods, fuel, electronics?
The US is not perfect, far from it but like it or not the biggest nuts in the world swing between these legs and any global conflict will be our fight so maybe we stop it cold in Ukraine...maybe we don't...it sure seems like world governments are hell-bent for war so IDK. We will see soon enough though so love your family be kind to your neighbors and live while the living is good because a storm is rising and in this modern day and age it's going to be bloody as shit.
Honestly, this is how government works in our system.
It’s not perfect but it’s how things get done and letting Russia win would set a TERRIBLE precedent for their future expansion goals and for China’s inevitable moves on Taiwan.
I understand the sentiment. We’re now in the early stages of Idiocracy where Americans don’t understand support for Ukraine. I’ve tried explaining it and they just don’t get it. The U.S. is heading towards isolationism and it won’t change whether it’s a democrat or republican in office. All that we can hope is that Biden wins while still keeping in line with his advisors.
There’s also the chance that Trump finally releases his grip on the GOP (not willingly, of course) and Republicans start to come back to reality. Then we could have people like Lankford be the new standard for GOP senators as opposed to Cruz, Blackburn, and Hawley. At least he’ll work with Democrats. The rest only want to obstruct. And when they only want to obstruct, we’re left with a broken border system and a strategic ally scrambling for spare ammo.