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this post was submitted on 07 Feb 2024
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The place where 2 million people live has a government. Shock.
Brainrot moment
They elected them and in recent polling generally support them, especially for doing the October 7th attack
Could decades of brainwashing be a factor of it?
Attack my ass, unarmed civilian massacre.
Maybe ask yourself the same.
Really? Let me guess, you think I am a brainwashed Israeli Jew or someone living abroad?
Ever really listened to Lennon, Imagine? Or Roger Waters work?
ANY organized religion or ANY race(!) based thinking, being manipulated by billionaires is the problem. I know both sides, nobody is good. Root for true peace.
What HAMAS did is comparable to Poland really attacking Germany.
I agree with you in theory, just not in practice, I suppose. Billionaires are not going to roll over and quit because they're asked to.
I mean, I don't support any of the violence occurring, especially not the violence of displacing Palestinians into ghettos and definitely not Oct. 7th, however if you were displaced into a ghetto and lived in constant fear of being bombarded by the IDF, I'd support whatever group of people with guns that said they would fight the group of people trying to kill me. They're caught between a rock and hard place with no options. You go with your best option given the circumstances.
"I don't condone violence, I just make excuses for it"
Disgusting.
Any violence towards civilians is unacceptable. You can condemn those actions by Hamas and still recognize that the occupied have an international right to fight back against their occupiers.
Israel has made peaceful resolution impossible, non violent protests against the occupation are responded with lethal force
1st Intifada AJ, PBS, Haaretz
Gaza March for Return Protest
History of peace process
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
“I don’t condone violence, I just make excuses for it”
Disgusting.
One would certainly be excusing a lot of violence if they support the occupation. An apartheid requires a lot of violence to maintain
British Mandate Period:
The Concept of Transfer 1882-1948
Palestinian Arab Congress advocating for Unified State 1928
1929 Riots from Forward and 972Mag
Shaw Commission
Peel Commission Report and Memorandum of the Arab Higher Committee 1937
1936-1939 Revolt from JVL, Britannica, MEE
Irgun and Lehi activity
1948 to 1967:
Plan Dalet and Declassified Massacres
Arab League advocating for unified state 1948
1967 war Declassified
Israel Martial Law and Defence (Emergency) Regulations practiced in the occupied territories after 1967
How the US became the ally of Israel
Occupation:
Occupation and 50 years of dispossession
1st Intifada AJ, PBS, Haaretz
2nd Intifada AJ, Haaretz
Gaza Blockade is Occupation
Arab Israelis are not equal including Education (2001 report)
Palestinian Prisoners in Israel and Military Court
Child abuse of Palestinian prisoners
Apartheid
Human Shields including Children (2013 Report)
Settler Violence, Torture and Abuse in Interrogations, No freedom of movement, and also Water control
Gaza March for Return Protest
Palestinians lack civil rights
Hamas founding charter and Revised charter 2017
History of Hamas supported by Netanyahu since 2012
AWRAD Gaza War Poll
PCPSR Public Opinion Poll Dec 2023
History of peace process
One State Solution, Foreign Affairs archived here
10 Myths of Israel
Weird, your sources seem to be missing the events in late 1947 that led up to the formulation and execution of Plan Dalet. All cases of the Arab League threatening mass genocide of Jews and conclusive evidence of the Arab League having deep ties to Nazi Germany also seem to be mysteriously absent. 🤔
https://www.hoover.org/research/mufti-and-holocaust
You forgot the part in 2006 when Fatah tried to overthrow the PA in a coup and Israel publicly took their side and armed them. Hamas repelled the coup attempt and there’s been multiple attempts at redoing the election but neither side trusts the other and Hamas is not going to let coup people run for election when they tried to overthrow a result they didn’t like.
Perhaps you should learn history; Fatah lost seats to Hamas in the 2006 election when Hamas won the plurality of the vote. Fatah decided to try a coup after being egged on by Israel.
Hamas wouldn't exist if there was no occupation
British Mandate Period:
Antisemitism in Islam
Antisemitism in the Arab World
The Concept of Transfer 1882-1948
Palestinian Arab Congress advocating for Unified State 1928
1929 Riots from Forward and 972Mag
Shaw Commission
Peel Commission Report and Memorandum of the Arab Higher Committee 1937
1936-1939 Revolt from JVL, Britannica, MEE
Irgun and Lehi activity
What Hitler and the Grand Mufti Really Said: Time, Haaretz, WaPo
Yosef Weitz' unofficial Transfer Committee and the JNF. Which has dispossessed Palestinians to present day. 972mag, MEE, Haaretz
1948 to 1967:
Plan Dalet and Declassified Massacres
Additional context of what was detailed in Plan C (May 1946) and Plan D (March 1948)
Arab League advocating for unified state 1948
1967 war Declassified
Israel Martial Law and Defence (Emergency) Regulations practiced in the occupied territories after 1967
How the US became the ally of Israel
UK influence
Occupation:
Occupation and 50 years of dispossession
1st Intifada AJ, PBS, Haaretz
Oslo Accords MEE, NYT, Haaretz, AJ
2nd Intifada AJ, Haaretz
Gaza Blockade is Occupation
Dahiya Doctrine
Arab Israelis are not equal including Education (2001 report)
Palestinian Prisoners in Israel and Military Court
Child abuse of Palestinian prisoners
Apartheid
Human Shields including Children (2013 Report)
Settler Violence, Torture and Abuse in Interrogations, No freedom of movement, and also Water control
Gaza March for Return Protest
Palestinians lack civil rights
Hamas founding charter and Revised charter 2017
History of Hamas supported by Netanyahu since 2012
AWRAD Gaza War Poll
PCPSR Public Opinion Poll Dec 2023
History of peace process
One State Solution, Foreign Affairs archived here
10 Myths of Israel
Weird, your sources seem to be missing the events in late 1947 that led up to the formulation and execution of Plan Dalet. All cases of the Arab League threatening mass genocide of Jews and conclusive evidence of the Arab League having deep ties to Nazi Germany also seem to be mysteriously absent. 🤔
https://www.hoover.org/research/mufti-and-holocaust
Those are both revisionist histories that got debunked from the declassified archives of the Israeli Military, especially when cross referenced with Arab Sources.
Plan C, that preceded Dalet, was implemented in May 1946, and previous plans (A and B) that were more recon oriented (such as detailing the village/town layouts, which if any officials to kill, how many militia was in each town, how many if any weapons the militias had) were developed earlier. This goes back to the concept of transfer in Zionist thought which I linked. As well as the declassified info I also linked.
Additional context of what was detailed in Plan C (May 1946) and Plan D (March 1948)
What Hitler and the Grand Mufti Really Said: Time, Haaretz, WaPo
The wiki on Amin Husseini and Azzam Pasha also show the revisionism in your source. After his expulsion, Amin's influence continued to dwindle. His antisemitism was never popular. It's no wonder why his personal Holy War Army only had about 1500, while over 12000 Palestinians fought alongside Jewish forces against Nazi Germany
If you want a more accurate account of the Palestinian-Israeli conflict you should look towards the New Historians that emerged once documents about the founding of Israel became declassified
The Hundred Years' War on Palestine - Rashid Khalidi
The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine - Ilan Pappe
A History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict - Mark Tessler
Hey Nazi Germany wouldn't exist if they liked or bought Hitler's art.
Actually Nazism wouldn't exist if the treaty of Versailles wasn't so punishing Germany economically. The Nazi party got its supporters of disgruntled citizens with the current hardships. And mind you a lot of the initial support of the party was by regular citizens who were viewing them as the only way out of this spiral of despair. There are plenty of articles on the internet explaining exactly this in case you are interested.
And guess what Israel is doing exactly now in both the West Bank and Gaza? Creating the same spiral of despair while calling themselves the good guys. And yes, Hamas probably also wouldn't exist if Gazans and Palestinians were treated equally and with respect by Israel's government. So like it or not the current status quo there only benefits the far right parties and Hamas.
And guess what else, this war in Gaza won't bring any peace to the region, peace can only be brought if both sides are making compromises and in good faith are trying to reach a mutually acceptable long term solution, which I don't see happening anytime soon. That's why so many countries are pushing Israel to seek a two state solution, because this is the only way to some kind of sustainable peace, which your far right government so fervently refuse, because you know they can keep pressing Palestinians, bare them from any basic human rights and dehumanize them in their medias.
Because all these far right parties in Israel are toast without Hamas, they need an immediate threat to fuel the fear of their voters, the same way Hamas is toast without the far right government and parties in Israel.
You might be right, but what's your point? Even logically, there are no parallels to your statement and the ongoing issue in Palestine.
Hamas was an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood, with sheikh yassin as the 'spiritual leader' in 1987. Those links go over the Intifada's and Hamas in detail.
The intifada was a massive protest against the occupation that was ongoing since 1967, so yes there would be no Hamas if there was no occupation.
-PBS
I gave up weeks ago. Same with the genocide Joe shit. I internalized acceptance this morning after hearing Biden #s in Nevada. Veeeery vocal and astroturfing minority on here. This place doesn't have the cultural identity I feel it purports.
People aren't voting for Biden because of support for Israel, it's for (rightful) fear of Trump.
It's a single issue election, and the issue is Trump. Polling shows increasing support for Palestine and against Israel's actions, even more so amongst Millennials and Gen Z who make up the majority of Lemmy users.
Yes, very thankful that US foreign policy isn't dictated by chronically online Gen Zers.
Of course they were, but they also won an election
That they didn't as you say "waltz in at gun point". Just as the German people of the time had some responsibility for the rise of Hitler, so must the Palestinian people of today bear some responsibility for putting Hamas in power.
Hence my comments about Hamas's popular support in polling.
Agreed but that isn't weird. When's the last time an American president had popular support while in power? 2009? They legally won an election, which means the Palestinian people put them in charge. There was no waltzing, at gunpoint or otherwise.