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Italian town in turmoil after far-right mayor bans Muslim prayers
(www.theguardian.com)
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this post was submitted on 18 Feb 2024
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Everyone likes to think of Italy as this land of the cultured and sophisticated with all the art, food, and architecture. But you'll find a lot of Italians are as racist and ass backwards as a toothless Klan member in Mississippi.
Italy literally invented fascism.
Hitler used to jerk off to pictures of Mussolini while building his movement.
Mussolini invented fascism, not Italy . Lots of Italians fell for it and supported it, the rest of the population - the vast majority - had to endure it and were straight up forced to live by its rules through persecution, imprisonment, violence, oppression, physical torture, displacement and homicide. Google the crimes of the Camicie Nere. Millions of Italians were killed because they wouldn’t accept the dictatorship. Look up the Partigiani fighters, they are the true heroes of the anti-fascist fight. Google the Fosse Ardeatine Massacre as one of many examples. Americans fancy themselves the saviours but they stepped in very very late when all the hard work had been done already by the Partigiani. Italy is historically a socialist country, so to say “Italy invented fascism” is just wrong.
Was Mussolini part of the government when fascism was invented? Then yes. Italy invented fascism.
It's okay. It's history.
What does that even mean…
Giovanni Gentile and Benito Mussolini invented fascism. Indeed, it’s history. Whathttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_fascism
Correct. They were part of the government at the time, therefore Italy invented fascism.
Just like Britain invented the first tank. Not "some dude in the government."
If this is the case you're gonna have to give back a lot of things that are attributed to "Italy". I think it's well understood what is meant when someone claims something is from a region/area/country. It was an Italian and it took a country to back it. It's Italian.
So you don’t understand how dictatorship works, ok.
Not the point. That's a huge red herring.
100,000 max (45k combat. 45k pow camps) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_resistance_movement
Those are the Partigiani, but countless other Italians have been killed because they were against fascism, even before the Partigiani movement formed.
So if any italians are like Israel. A country with a rich history of strife and oppression but basically ignore it because it's easier to blame others (in this case brown ppl/immigrants) as the cause of all their problems slowly sliding back to the ideals (in this case racism and fascism) they supposedly rejected.
You are missing the point. The Dutch has Nazi's too, but also a lot of resistance. There is good and bad all around, even within people. If you want to label it as one thing, that would be shortsighted.
My GF is Italian. That’s pretty much how she describes Italy.
As a land of culture and sophisticated art or a land of toothless racists? Or is it both at the same time?
I can say that it is both
Yes.
This is no big deal and it's kinda funny, but really it just sounds like you thought that, and then were shocked when you learned otherwise lol.
Because I honestly don't know anyone who believes that. While I'm sure there are people who do, it's not this massive common misconception that you're claiming.
No I've never been and don't plan on going, mainly because of the racism and warnings from other black travelers. That being said outside of Europe the idea Italians are cultured, suave, and classy is definitely a thing. Europe in general is stereotyped that way.
Anecdotal but my impression is that most people feel like Italy is a culturally sophisticated place and don't realise there's a lot of racism and prejudism.
This tells more about you than about Italians
I know plenty of people who think that and agree with his assessment that most people view Italian culture as refined and sophisticated, just like the French.
As an Italian, I would say that's not the case, not "a lot of Italians are racist". I've had interactions with a few racist people of older generations, but I would say that they are the exception, thankfully.
Frankly, that's kind of hard to believe when your country has an openly fascist government
Fascism is not exclusively about racism. It’s a government style were the first victims are the citizens themselves. Racism is a component of it.
Damn, you must not live there, even in the south, were people are mostly ignorant, all I hear is complains about giorgia meloni and how shitty her government is 🥶🙏
But why did she win if not because of the majority of voting Italians wanted her? (which could be just half+1, I concede)
This is why Trump won in 2016. Complacency. "Everyone in my state hates his guts. He must not be popular, then. I don't even need to vote since Clinton will clearly win!"
Replied to the other person about this!
I don't live in Italy, that's correct. But if nobody likes the fascists, who voted for them, then?
The most likely reason is that most of the young people did not vote, leaving the vote to old people and middle aged ones.
Though, by living in the south, I may have a different view of it, as most politicians hate our southern asses, including the meloni
Edit: so, excluding most younger people, it leaves most of the northerns individuals ( who usually have more money invested in their infrastructure by governments ) and old people who are likely to vote for her. But it is still weird as literally anyone I talk to, not friends, just random people,vsay that they have not voted for her, even including some oldies that I know personally
Edit 2: no but like seriously, literally no one likes her, especially after the shitshow she has been making with the bonuses
Just because they're not young, doesn't mean they don't count. Doesn't Europe have an aging population anyway? So if "old people" voted for her, and she won, then yes, Italians voted for her, period.
Nope, not weird at all. That's pretty much the definition of "living in a bubble." I'm not saying this to insult you, OP. It's just that that's exactly what it is.
I saw it in Venezuela. People thinking that Chavez was never going to win. Hell, even all the media was projecting the other candidate to win (they were all biased.) Oh, but who are these people? Middle class. If all you do is talk to other middle class people (because god forbid you talk to poor people!), then all you'll hear is that no one will vote for Chavez. Except that the middle class is (was) just the 20% of the population, and the majority of people, 80% of them, were all in for Chavez. Chavez wins, and people like you get a surprised pikachu face.
You don't have votes the way you do without endemic racism. Football still has a massive problem too.
Would you say Italian football fans would be considered "a lot of Italians?"
How about Serie A itself?
Or Fratelli d'Italia party members and voters?
Sometimes I think racism is nutrients for a lot of italians because they can not and will not stop with it
I have never once in my life thought of Italy as being sophisticated. I feel like they definitely use to be but havnt been in a long time.
They also make very low quality export olive oil.
They actually make really good quality olive oil but "water" it down with cheap filler oils and export an inferior product because that's safer and more profitable than trafficking drugs.
Totally agreed. There's a reason why italians sided with fucking hitler during world war 2.
They are insecurity incarnate.
Even if we fully ignore that it was Mussolini, by that broken logic modern Germans are Nazis which they so obviously aren't.
I'm not saying this situation isn't a shambles but trying to say all Italians are insecurity incarnate is honestly stupid. They just aren't. Most Italians are lovely.
OP didn't say "Today's Italy" sided with hitler. Most Italians are indeed lovely, yes. But your comment is a strawman.
Nah, op clearly meant present day Italians, the comment you are replying to is not a straw man
Oh. Okay.
Maybe french but not italian culture, no. Italian is more about passion. Them and spain are a typical southern climate culture to other europeans.
Lol the french.
Have you ever heard of the Renaissance?
The Roman Empire tried to genocide the celts and many others. It's in their blood.