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this post was submitted on 21 Apr 2024
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The container is locked, which is explicitly described as secured. How easy the lock is defeated is not mentioned.
How is that a step a reasonable person would take?
And how would that be a reasonable interpretation of the law?
Because it's explicitly included in the definition as a step a reasonable person would take. It's not the only step they may take (maybe they hide it instead), but the law is written to be that permissive.
They did not have to add that definition when they passed the bill. They did it to make the law more permissive as to what "secured" meant.
No reasonable person considers a box locked or secure when the keys are right next to it.
You would not consider your money safe in a lockbox under the same condition.
Arguing otherwise is quite obviously bad faith.
I'm trying to explain to you that the definition "steps a reasonable person would make" includes "in a locked container." You could argue a container with the key literally in the lock isn't locked but the definition you have to use when interpreting the law is the one the law itself provides.
No, it’s not. The locked container is just one of the examples for steps a reasonable person could take. The emphasis of the wording is clear.
The way in which you try to twist the wording is another display of bad faith arguing.
I don't really understand what you think I'm doing in bad faith. You're focused on situations where a locked container isn't reasonable by your definition. The problem is they included the example to specifically make that a step a reasonable person would take. Reasonable is a legal fiction that is influenced by jury instructions that would specifically include this. I'll ask you to contrast that to this model legislation that actually addresses your concerns:
https://www.justice.gov/d9/2023-12/Safe%20Storage%20Model%20Legislation.pdf
You are trying beyond all reason to misinterpret what 'reasonable person' means and in extension what can reaonably be called securely locked. It's gotten pretty outlandish.
The document you linked is a very interesting read as it takes stock of currently existing law and attempts to clear up question you might have about implementation. It states as such in several places on page 1. Page 4 indeed clears up what can be considered what a 'reasonable person' or 'average Joe' has to do to properly store a weapon.
Since you also attack the legal concept of 'reasonable person': The reasonable person is a hypothetical individual who exercises average caution, care, and judgment in their conduct.
So unless there's a lot of lead in the water, the average person would not leave keys to a lockbox that contains valuables or dangerous items that allows someone else, let alone an 8yo have access to it.