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this post was submitted on 03 May 2024
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So he was trying to work the flashlight when he accidentally pulled the trigger. Is there no safety on these guns, or did he disengage that when he was trying to use his radio?
There's no manual safety to disengage on Glock handguns, a common standard issue sidearm.
They have safeties such as a split trigger, but they're intended to stop negligent discharges. There's no switch or button to turn it on and off a "safe" mode.
Technically any unintended discharge of a gun is a negligent discharge because the user isn't following the 4 rules of gun safety. The trigger dongle makes a glock drop safe, but not safe from idiots putting their finger on the trigger (where most NDs happen).
It's even worse since the NYPD has absurd trigger pull weight.
Yeah, 12lbs is crazy.
I may have misused the term, thanks. As far as the split trigger my understanding is that's for cases where your finger or other object unintentionally partially pulls the trigger.
There's an additional safety on glocks for drops where the firing pin is blocked by the trigger bar unless the trigger is pulled in a manner that satisfies the split trigger mechanism.
Yeah no problem - not to get too deep in the weeds, but the glock trigger is intended to fire a round whenever you have your finger on the trigger and pull it. In other words, if you pull the trigger, it will go bang. The trigger dongle is not meant to function as a safety device if you are pulling the trigger partially.
In general, the only safety feature of triggers is a long and hard pull weight, commonly seen on "double action / single action" (DA/SA) guns like the Sig P226. The double action refers to 1) cocking the hammer, then 2) releasing the hammer. Glocks are all striker fired, which means they only have a single action (releasing the firing pin, no hammer). That means that each trigger pull on a Glock is the same, in contrast to DA/SA guns where the first pull is extremely hard, then each pull after that (because the hammer is then cocked) is very light. This is considered a safety feature because you have to be very intentional about your first shot, but once you know you're going to be shooting, other shots are easy.
What's weird, as the other commenter mentioned, is that NYPD makes glock install a super heavy trigger in their glocks so they all basically function as a safety. However, the dongle doesn't impact that at all - it's just a tiny little flap that instantly folds with no pressure.
The firing pin block is indeed a safety device too, but it's unconnected to the trigger dongle per se (there's no mechanical connection). A firing pin block does block the firing pin from moving forward. On a glock (and similar striker fired guns with trigger dongles), the movement of the trigger (let's say 50% through the pull) pushes the firing pin block up so that the firing pin is free to impact the bullet (once the trigger is pulled 100%). The trigger dongle's job is to prevent the trigger from STARTING to move at all, thus keeping the firing pin block in place - the difference in weight between the dongle and the trigger is what makes them drop safe (in contrast, see early sig p320 designs, which were not drop safe because there was no dongle).
Edit: btw, that's why good trigger discipline (example) is extremely important for glocks, since you have no external safety (and outside the NYPD, a relatively light trigger weight).
TIL
Thank you.
Thank you. I hadn't checked what they're issued with.
So then I'm wondering why he didn't demount the flashlight. I guess he was worried that he might accidentally fire the gun into his foot while doing so. He's obviously a little bit prone to that kind of thing. Safer to leave it on the rail, I guess.
Although it's not that hard to unmount a weapon mounted light (WML), you typically do not - it's just how your gun is configured. Sort of like if you put new laces on shoes, you can technically take them off, but why would you? WMLs are used to help identify targets in dark areas - especially when the possibility of actually shooting is very high - i.e. if you know someone with a gun is hiding in a basement, you'd want your WML on to positively identify them so you're not shooting at innocent people. HOWEVER, based on everything we've heard about these protests, there's really no reason that the officer should have had his duty weapon out AT ALL. They have regular flashlights for use in regular scenarios (like here) where you need to see in the dark but are not going to be shooting anyone.
You asked "you can ... but why would you?". You answered yourself.
Because he wasn't in a situation where he was going to need to shoot anyone but he decided to proceed as if he was. And accidents happen, as he demonstrated.
You can say this is SOP, but that's worse, isn't it?
Why would you = removing a WML. This guy is clearly a super huge idiot if that's what he was trying to do. I would think that this is super far from SOP, which should be to use his flashlight since he's surrounded by 999 other cops, this guy did not need his gun out at all.
Yes, but he did have his gun out and the spokesperson effectively said "don't worry, he didn't mean to fire it - he was only planning to point it at people".
Yeah, sorry, at this point, I don't know what you're trying to say. I think we're both in agreement that this cop is an idiot and should not have his gun out, right?
I've only been trying to tell you that your question of "why he didn't demount the flashlight" is not really how it works.
No surprises there. Clear what the priorities are