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this post was submitted on 06 May 2024
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And? So is where I grew up in the southern US. There are states I can’t legally visit anymore if I want to piss in a public restroom. That doesn’t mean I’m okay with bombing most of the hospitals, schools, and homes there and killing tens of thousands of civilians. Anyone OK with that because they’re bigoted in some way has a fucking moral deficiency.
This doesn't make any sense - if anything it's backwards. being oppressed doesn't give anyone a free pass to oppress others. That kind of twisted logic is what Israel uses to get away with murder.
Fun fact, you can’t find anywhere in my comment that says “being oppressed makes oppressing others okay” because that’s not what it says. It says that parents potentially being bigoted isn’t an excuse to blow up their fucking children.
I’ve yet to have anyone give me a satisfactory explanation for why Palestinian kids deserve to have their limbs blown off or killed for living in an area hostile to LGBT people, but the people I grew up with who are equally hostile to LGBT people don’t deserve to have their kids’ limbs blown off or killed. If the answer is “American children are simply worth more than Palestinian children” then they should just come out and say it, but all I ever get is bleating about the same shit I already addressed.
Is anyone actually saying this? What I usually see, like "queers for Palestine" is the opposite — people who excuse the extreme homophobia and misogyny in Islamic countries.
You are in a thread that started with a 1 day old account JAQing off about how transphobic Palestine is on a post about Palestinians campaigning for LGBT rights. If you don’t see that the purpose of that comment is to legitimize violence against Palestine I can’t help you.
If that's the case then OP is an enormous jackass. That still doesn't change the fact that queer Palestinians are absolutely being oppressed in their country (or what should be a country) and this is too often swept under the rug.
Wow, I wonder if the article posted has anything to do with that! ಠ_ಠ
Sorry, I'm not following?
It is nonsensical to come into a post about the thing you claim is being ignored and say that it is being ignored.
The article itself talks about how much difficulty they are having, though.
Wow yeah, if you divorce everything from context and just say that they’re having “difficulty” then yes, that is true, because it means essentially nothing. But you want to conflate the difficulty they’re actually having (living in a place with violent religious bigots) with leftists not talking enough about how bigoted Palestine is. That is not what’s causing them difficulties.
The comments writing off entire regions of the world as bigoted (including the southern US!) don’t help anyone there, and it’s little more than a thought terminating cliche.
Most of the southern US won't stone you or murder you in broad daylight though. What's happening in Palestine and Israel is fucked up, but it doesn't give a pass to the shit they do to the LGTBQ+ and women over there.
Since October 1st 2023, 20 trans people in the US are known to have died from violence. Almost half of them died in the south (as defined by the US census). Are trans people in the south any safer for it happening under cover of night? Pretending for a moment none of them were killed in broad daylight (some were).
Again, nobody is saying it excuses bigotry. Only a fucking idiot thinks bombing hospitals, schools, and civilians is going to somehow improve the lives of LGBT Palestinians (who everyone somehow neglects to give a shit about in these conversations except as a cudgel against western LGBT people).
Yes, trans people in the US are safer than in Palestine. Jesus Christ.
https://www.state.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/415610_WEST-BANK-AND-GAZA-2022-HUMAN-RIGHTS-REPORT.pdf
spoiler
Violence against LGBTQI+ Persons: There were reported cases of violence,criminalization, or abuse based on sexual orientation and gender identity in the
West Bank. OHCHR and NGOs reported Hamas security forces in Gaza harassed
and detained persons due to their sexual orientation or gender identity. Both noted,
however, that such cases were rarely reported, especially in Gaza, because of
concerns about protecting the safety those involved.
OHCHR observers reported PA security officers harassedand sometimes arrested
individuals due to their sexual orientation or gender identity. LGBTQI+
individuals were also victims of targeted hate crimes and violent acts. Media
reported that Ahmed Abu Markhiya, a gay Palestinian, was killed by decapitation
in Hebron on October 5. Abu Markhiya had been residing in Israel for several
years under a humanitarian permit reportedly because of death threats he received
while living in the West Bankand was awaiting approval of an asylum application
to Canada, according to media reports. Palestinian police made an arrest and
continued an investigation intothe killing.
Media reported that lesbians in the West Bank and Gaza concealed their sexual
orientation due to fear they would be killed by their families.
The PA failed to protect members of the LGBTQI+ community. After an attack on
members of the community at the Al Mustawde restaurant earlier in the year, the
PA did not make any attempts to hold the culprits accountable for their action.
Discrimination: The PA does not provide protection for or prohibit
discrimination against the LGBTQI+ community. Homosexuality is widely
considered to be taboo in areas under PA control and in Gaza.
Activities associated with the LGBTQI+ community were met with strong
opposition, and the Palestinian police often acted to prevent these activities. As a
result of this and other discriminatory conduct, the LGBTQI+ community in the
West Bank was driven underground and had no vocal representatives or NGOs
willing to speak in the West Bank, according to observers. Similarly, in Gaza,
according to observers, there was no visible LGBTQI+ community. Observers
reported that human rights organizations in Gaza did not monitor and refused to
address LGBTQ+ issues.
Availability of Legal Gender Recognition: There is no legal method for
correcting gender markers on identity documents.
Involuntary or Coercive Medical or Psychological Practices Specifically
Targeting LGBTQI+ Individuals: According to media reports, family members
of LGBTQI+ individuals subjected them to involuntary or coercive medical,
psychological, and religious practices throughout the West Bank and Gaza. Media
reported that a Palestinian man confronted his son, age 18, after finding messages
on the son’s mobile phone between him and another young man suggesting a
same-sex relationship. The son claimed his father attacked him, beat him, and
renounced him. The father forced him to meet with a cleric weekly until he
attempted unsuccessfully to kill himself, according to the report.
Restrictions of Freedom of Expression, Association, or Peaceful Assembly:
The PA in cases limited freedom of expression, association, and peaceful
assembly, although not explicitly based on sexual orientation or identity, and it
tolerated such actions by vigilantes and armed militias. During the year, in the
West Bank, peaceful assemblies and gatherings attended by LGBTQI+ individuals
were disrupted. For example, the Warehouse (event space) in Ramallah was
closed after a campaign of incitement, hate speech, and assault, which followed a
June 17 attack on the venue and cancellation of a musical performance because the
artist was “gay.” According to media reports, the attackers circulated a video on
social media and, following the violent attack, targeted the performance space with
an incitement campaign based on a false account of the events and the place.
According to media, approximately 200,000 social media users participated,
leaving thousands of hate-filled comments and incitement to murder (see 2.a.,
Academic Freedom and Cultural Events).
So 20 from hate crimes? Or just 20 from all violence? Because those who are found out to be LGBTQ+ in the middle east, are killed because they're LGBTQ+, and often in very violent ways.
Some states don’t even have LGBT hate crime legislation, and until recently (like, last year) multiple southern states didn’t. There’s no federal requirement for states to report the number of LGBT hate crimes that happen yearly. So until that change there is no concise way of answering both how many trans people died from general violence and how many from hate crimes. But anyone who thinks the answer to that is zero isn’t paying attention.
I’m also not sure that the trans people murdered in the US get any solace from ‘only’ being shot or stabbed, or that the distinction helps anyone LGBT in the US or Palestine who is hate crimed.
https://apnews.com/article/middle-east-israel-immigration-west-bank-gay-rights-ce95f6903faf461502cc0800b272b159
Again, comparing the southern USA to anywhere in the middle east or northern Africa is being naive.
Could the USA do better on LGBTQ rights? Absolutely. But let's stop pretending they're anywhere near the way the middle east handles LGBTQ+ rights.
They obviously aren’t the same. Anyone denying that the south is dangerous for LGBT people (trans people particularly) is just fucking stupid.
By your logic the entire USA is dangerous to LGBT people, as you said it yourself half happened in the south, but acting like people in the south are hunted down and arrested or murdered is bullshit.
If it’s legal for you to piss in public restrooms in all 50 states then I’m really not interested in how hysterical you think someone who can’t do that is being.
Btw, here’s a story about a trans man who was arrested after being assaulted for following the owner’s instructions on which bathroom to use.
If you have no idea what kind of issues trans people in the US face on the regular it’s okay to just say that.
And I'm not interested in you trying to compare the usa to the middle east. Your article btw has the guy getting arrested because he was drunk and fighting police, not because he was transgender. None of that should have happened at all.
Just a note, that happened in Ohio, which last I checked wasn't in the southern US.
I absolutely know the bullshit trans people go through, I have family and friends who are trans and LGBTQ. It's a shit world for them right now, but it's nothing like the middle east.
My man I am trans and from the south. There is not a combination of words you’re going to be able to use to be able to convince me that somehow my entire life experience is wrong and some random cis person on the internet who may or may not have even been to the south actually knows what it’s like better than me, no matter how many LGBT people you know. If you’re such an ally maybe try researching and listening to a trans person who had to flee the south over how dangerous it is to live there as an openly queer person.
Neat how you left out the part where everyone involved was drinking and the only person to get arrested was trans. Wowee, what a coincidence! Such ally! The care you have for the queer people in Palestine and the US who are brutalized is really showing.
Do not contact me again.
I'm a minority from the south, who does range days on my own private range for operation blazing sword, and I have family who are LGBTQ+...but sure won't contact you again.
"um ackahually I have a black friend"
that's how you sound
Go read through this thread and then come back and tell me I'm the one pulling that crap. All I see in thus thread is a bunch of white privilege kids who think the world is black and white.
I think everyone even Arabs agree that the majority of people is homophobic/transphobic. Fine.
But please state a source for people in Palestine being stoned, like at all, no matter the reason. What kind of place do you think Palestine is?
https://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=81112&page=1
You're joking right? There are literal laws all over the middle east in Islamic run nations about stoning people, just type stoning and middle east(ps this doesnt exclude Israel, they've arrested their own who have done it) into Google and you're going to get a ton of results. Why is this shocking? Sharia law has it as a form of punishment.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoning#
None of those places are Palestine.
The first link is literally Palestine....the fuck you mean it's not.
There is a huge fucking difference between a hate crime and stoning as legal punishment.
Uhh...who said it wasn't? You or someone asked for an article on stoning in Palestine... I provided said article and now goal posts are being moved around.
I'm not that person, so I won't argue their point.
I am making a different point, that has to do with Palestine as a whole, not about individual criminals.
They weren't stoned for being lgbtq though is the point. Israel is also homophobic and transphobic. It's a common tactic by the IDF to kidnap and record gay people having sex so that they can blackmail them into becoming informants. I guess all of Israel all Jewish people are homophobic then? That is the logic you use. The logic of a racist.
You didnt ask for that, you asked for anyone being stoned. Way to move the goal post. You have also now brought in more whatsboutism of what Israels military does, they're shit to, it doesn't magically make the middle east and Islam a friend to LGBT persons.
Not joking at all. Don’t show me a Wikipedia article, show me a newspaper article about someone being stoned in Palestine.
Hamas doesn't really do stonings, so you appear to be correct. It looks like just about every execution committed by Hamas involved a firing squad, most often performed in public.
Hamas does torture and execute people for suspicion of being gay, though, even their own commanders.
Free Palestine. Fuck the IDF and Hamas.
Yeah that was my point. It’s not that Arab societies are like super progressive and Palestinian people are suddenly angels just because they are victims of genocide. It’s just that doing stonings is an archaic practice that doesn’t exist in the Levant. Like people might be very conservative and live in authoritarian societies, but they still live in the 21st century and they don’t want that shit.
That being said Hamas absolutely sucks, they are violent, corrupt dictators and while they currently are the biggest armed resistance against the ongoing colonization they shouldn’t have any place in a free Palestine.
The first link is literally Palestine....
So we’re talking about stoning people that’s allegedly happening due to violations of sharia law and you bring up a story from 2001 so probably during the second intifada about an incident involving illegal Israeli settlers.
I wanted to assume that you maybe just don’t know better but this is just bad faith from your side.
O I'm sorry that it's a story from 2001 does that magically make it false now? Goal posts really keep getting pushed further and further....
Keep trying. This has nothing to do with stoning people as a punishment based on religious laws, for example for being trans. Which you claimed would be a common practice in Palestine. An unresolved incident involving illegal Israeli settlers during the second intifada inside the occupied West Bank has nothing to do with that. You’re the one moving goalposts, more like spreading false information and you know it.
You mean how I've continued to post links from legitimate sources providing proof of what I have been saying and you all have been replying with "not like that"...
Jesus Christ relax
No ❤️