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Lemmy is a worse platform for women than Reddit was
(lemmy.cafe)
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this post was submitted on 13 May 2024
317 points (73.3% liked)
Unpopular Opinion
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MODERATORS
Yes, mods in most communities expect discussions not to descend into people hurling insults at each other because that turns the community into chaos and also does not make it a safe place for marginalized groups and why you would be against such a policy to the point of being so rude to me, I'm not sure. But if you feel that you need a place where you can be as insulting towards people as you like, may I suggest 4chan?
How is "may I suggest 4chan", a notoriously transphobic website, directed at someone from the Trans Lemmy, not supposed to be an insult?
How is "fuck you" an insult? It doesn't attack you in any way whatsoever it just shows disrespect. I'm allowed to not respect you. Didn't say anything about you or even call you an asshole.
You're not protecting marginalized groups, you're enforcing a standard of civility that is usually used to tell minorities "shut up, why are you so angry"
If protecting minorities was the goal, the rule would be against racism, sexism, etc... but that's not the rule.
I already explained several times why I'm against the policy but idk I guess you can't read that well? Really the only explanation I have here.
That is stated explicitly in the communities I moderate.
Examples-
World News:
Ten Forward:
Lemmy Shitpost:
I don't know what you are entitled to do in this community in terms of moderation, but you are not entitled to make up your own so-called facts unchallenged.
Okay, if the civility rule is in place to protect minorities as you say, than why would we need a civility rule? That's my point. We already have rules against bigotry.
You totally missed my point π and then you get all snooty about "facts unchallenged". When really you just continually misunderstand or ignore my very clearly spelled out argument against this dumbass civility rule. Is this civility? You're just ignoring all my points and posting useless screenshots.
Your words:
I showed that this was a false claim.
So you can say I missed your point, but your point was based on a false claim. And now you're moving the goalposts.
I said "that's not the rule", not "that's not a rule". As in, that's not the rule you're talking about. You're literally just misunderstanding me, probably deliberately, and ignoring all my points to focus on pedantics! This is why you suck so bad dude!
You're ignoring the topic at hand to focus on something that you misinterpreted. Embarassing for you. Can't believe you're trying to turn this discussion into a grammar lesson, rather than the fact that your enforcement of civility rules is a shit thing to do.
So back to the topic, if civility rules exist to defend minorities, which is what you claimed ... why do we need them if we already have rules against bigotry and hate speech?!?!
And also back to the topic, how is continuing to ignore the conversation to rudely insist on your incorrect interpretation of my clear words... even after I clarified ... how is that civil lmao
I'm still not understanding why it's a shitty thing to stop people from having shouting matches and being bigots, which is what the civility rules are for, and you keep being rude rather than explaining it.
But it seems like you are not a fan of the 'no shouting matches' part, which seems to be the problem. And, again, I would suggest 4Chan if you want endless shouting matches.
I've explained multiple times, and if you had bothered to engage with my points rather than ignore them completely you would understand. Another poster also wrote out several paragraphs explaining why. You are PRETENDING to not have seen these explanations I wrote out.
Civility rules focus on the tone rather than the content, which is highly problematic because marginalized groups are often rightfully pissed the fuck off. That's probably like, the fifth time I've written out a version of that.
You are bringing up 4chan again after I already told you that that's fucked up since it's an extremely transphobic site, and I am a trans person. That's not civil lmao. You can continually insult me by telling me to go to 4chan, but if I say "fuck you" I gety posts taken down. Make that make sense. Nah, you won't because you get off on the power trip.
I have seen how you operate multiple times. You get into arguments with people, nitpick over dumb shit, and then when someone gets frustrated and uses meanie-poopoo-head language you take out your moderation powers. You have done this to me and I've seen you do this in other threads to other users. You really suck dude.
Then feel free to flag my post for violating incivility rules. Maybe I'll be banned. You seem to think I'm a moderator in this community when I'm not.
lmao just saw your post history and literally one of your last post is FLAUNTING your mod power, literally just proving my point. You think being a mod gives you social weight, which it does, and the other mods also believe. And you can't see how incivility rules are enforced unfairly??? You are just pretending not to understand this.
What are you even talking about now? Are you talking about this post? Where I said that they were welcome to ignore me or block me even if I'm a mod? That's a weird definition of 'flaunting.'
https://lemmy.world/comment/10079373
Again, if I have done anything to violate the rules in this community, do something about it. Flag my post.
You KNOW that you are being a polite asshole and won't get your comment taken down. That is the entire point of my contention with you and the inequitable civility rule. You are IGNORING all of my points.
You bragged about how you're such a good guy because you're a mod. You just keep pretending to miss the point! It's really obvious!
You have literally not addressed anything I have said and have perpetually deflected. I think the only reason you are continuing to respond is you are hoping I'll get frustrated and say something that a mod will ban me over. This is exactly why these civility rules suck. This is why you suck. You have no response to any of my explanations and then lie and say I haven't explained myself. Every time I see you comment, my day gets worse, because you're always doing the same thing in every discussion I've seen you in.
And not once have you said "my bad" or "I'm wrong" even though you have been mistaken or presumptive multiple times. π
I never bragged about being "such a good guy." Why are you lying again?
engage with the content of my post challenge level: impossible.
you are doing the same thing you always do and trying to bring this into a semantic argument.
you are scum defending these stupid civility rules when the way you engage with other people is just like, mind bogglingly obtuse and assholeish.
Insulting me will not make your lie true.
Once again, you ignore anything of actual substance. The civility rules are inequitable. Enforcing them makes you a shit person. You have no rebuttal or defense for this so you try to focus on other things, but I think at this point you just know I'm right.
Once again, insulting me will not make your lie true.
Enforcing shitty rules makes you a shit person. That's an accurate description. You continue to admit through your silence on the matter that the rules are unfair, and you benefit from them.
You're not engaging on the topic because you know I'm right.
And yet it is still a lie that I bragged about being βsuch a good guy.β
No amount of aggression, insults or berating posts will make that true. You can say whatever you like to me and that still won't be true. It's a lie. It's not my fault you lied.
I never quoted you, I am pulling out the substance of your argument here:
This is definitely flaunting, and definitely using your mod status to make you out to be a good person.
I fucking hate you for going into this stupid pedantic argument. This is what you always do. Literally always. I won't be continuing with this line anymore, I have quoted you directly and there is nothing more to say. Fucking tool.
You have nothing to say about civility rules? You can't defend yourself at all? You are okay with knowing you are upholding rules that silence minority opinions and rightfully angry individuals? How long can you ignore the topic?
Not once have you meaningfuly engaged with what I have been telling you. You are unable to because it threatens your sense of power.
No it isn't. Both of those things are lies. I will not address anything else you have to say while you continue to lie about me.
I do not, and have never claimed to be, a good person. That is not my call. My only claim is that I do my job as a moderator well enough that I keep being asked to moderate more channels, so maybe I'm not as bad a moderator as they claim.
Again for the people in the back row:
I do not, and have never claimed to be, a good person.
Now, are you going to stop lying? Because until you do, I will not address anything you said.
lmao you're so lost in the sauce you're just like , "yeah I'm not a good person". okay.
So you still won't acknowledge that it's a lie that I bragged about being a "really good person." Even though when I explicitly say twice that it is nothing I have ever claimed to be in my entire life.
I guess you don't want me to discuss your points after all. Weird that you keep complaining that I won't discuss them.
You just admitted you're not a good person, what more is there to say? My whole argument was that you're a shitty person for enforcing these civility rules.
Okay, fine. I'm a shitty person. Like I said, it's not my call.
All I know is that I came in here and told the OP that I would like to help them and let them know how to get in touch with me if there's a problem and you felt that was absolutely unacceptable of me.
If that makes me a shitty person, I accept that.
π€π€ hmmm was that the part of the comment I was talking about? Or are you disingenuously pretending? π€π€π€ let me find the nearest kindergartner to help you out with this.
Yes, I know, you are objecting to my using the word 'civility' by taking it entirely out of the context of the post.
Here is the context including why I said it to the OP:
OP: "All of that changed with the recent βbear vs manβ debacle. I saw women get shouted down just for expressing their stories of being sexually abused, repeatedly harassed, dogpiled, and brigaded with downvotes."
Me: Every community I moderate has a civility rule, and shouting down or harassing women who are telling personal stories would be against those rules.
You: ππ»ππ»ππ»ππ»
So yeah, I get that you are objecting to my using a single word when, taken out of context, means that I expect people to be polite all the time and not speak up when there's some injustice. Of course, I didn't mean that, as you can tell from what I literally said, or my comment history which you claimed to have read when I myself do that frequently, but you would much rather argue with something I never said or intended to say or even implied.
And your "proof" was me telling someone who was specifically telling me how I was a bad moderator that other people didn't seem to agree which meant I was bragging about being a really good person, something you still refuse to acknowledge is not true.
Honestly, it seems like you just wanted to get angry at someone and I was an available target.
So, again, fine, I'm a shitty person.
I'm also a shitty person who's going to keep a very close eye on you if you post in communities that I moderate in from now on because you just lie and lie and lie and I will not tolerate that where I moderate.
And that is my last post in this conversation.
I am objecting to the enforcement of civility rules, which are unnecessary given existing bigotry rules. You know that, but you're pretending that's not what I am saying. My proof was several well thought out arguments, and even some outside resources on the topic of civility and politeness rules being oppressive.
You ignored all of this.
Of course, the moment you start attempting to address the actual topic, you say "oh yah I won't respond" π I have seen you do that before so I'm not surprised. I fucking knew you would do that if I addressed your pedantic assholery.
You'll respond indefinitely to pedantics, but won't engage in anything of substance, and then act self righteous and also... only clip the part of my comments that are ππ»ππ», ignoring the point I actually made. π
And now you are abusing your power because you are calling me a "liar"
You do realize this is exactly what I am talking about with the civility rules and the inherent power imbalance?
I know you're not a mod here π but that still gives you weight. You won't be taken down for civility because, as I have explained several times, the rules are enforced selectively and unfairly. You have more power in any community because of your status as a mod in other large communities, and because your style of incivility is assholeish condescension which is easy to pretend is polite. You are literally ignoring all my points, again, because you can't dispute what I say, and you benefit from the rules.