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this post was submitted on 01 Aug 2023
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Asklemmy
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What is your Spirit? Can you describe its properties and offer some evidence to show the rest of us that it exists? How do you know you received an answer to your prayers? How might someone else replicate this experience?
There certainly is a replication process, as found in the Book of Moroni (a section within the Book of Mormon), chapter 10, verses 4 & 5
"4.And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.
5 And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things."
As for knowing it was my Spirit feeling an impression, it's much the same as people knew what emotions were long before we could see activity in the brain; through experience we can recognize and understand it even though it does not as yet appear on a scan.
To paraphrase a church scholar Hugh Nibley, it's not that science and https://apps.apple.com/us/app/gospel-library/id598329798 contractadict, but that incomplete religion and incomplete science do. Complete religion and complete science work fine together.
For properties, we go to Doctrine and Covenants (another standard work in our church), section 93, verse 29
"29 Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be"
In other words, the building blocks are intelligences. Now, when those intelligences come together, they can be formed into a Spirit.
Moving to section 131, verses 7 and 8
"7 There is no such thing as immaterial matter. All spirit is matter, but it is more fine or pure, and can only be discerned by purer eyes;
8 We cannot see it; but when our bodies are purified we shall see that it is all matter"
To reframe my experience then, the Holy Ghost, a member of the Godhead along with Jesus Christ and The Father (who are separate beings), spoke to my Spirit in a way I can sense and understand internally but, much like emotions before brain scanning, I cannot show.
Certainly happy to answer more questions (though I will be on the road today).
There is an app that contains all our standard works and will make finding these and other references easier. I believe there is also a section for Gospel Topics
https://apps.apple.com/us/app/gospel-library/id598329798
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.lds.ldssa&hl=en_US&gl=US
Every single one of the things you mentioned are claims, not evidence. Maybe I can rephrase my question:
When I buy a delicious Share Size Snickers bar at the 7-11, I see on the package that it claims that the bar weighs 3.86 ounces. It feels a little light to me; I am skeptical of the fact that this particular Share Size Snickers bar weighs what it claims on the package. My options are:
With regard to religion, you appear to be doing only #1, and I'm asking how I can do #2. What are the tools and evidence I can use, akin to the scale, that are independent of the religious text (= the Snickers wrapper) and can show me that your claims are valid?
The same question could apply to emotions. How do you put it on a scale and measure it's weight? As a sufferer of mental illness myself, the same question applies there: how do you put mental illness on a scale?
Yet, well before the advent of CT scans and other medical wonders, people didn't doubt the existence of emotion or mental problems.
They may not have known the cause, but they understood them based on their experience and the effect on behavior.
Emotions can't be seen, but you can see the effect they have on a person. In the same way, no, you can't put Spirit on a scale, but you can see it's effect in people's lives and feel it through experience
OK, so it sounds like you're freely admitting that there is currently no test, evidence, measurement, or other way that you can show the truth of your claims.
Edit: Also, I don't think I've ever seen what you're talking about regarding seeing a spirit's effect in people's lives, and I definitely haven't felt it myself.
Therefore, I claim that while I believe you are being honest and genuinely think you feel a spirit, it doesn't actually exist, and instead you have been indoctrinated into a cult (which you freely admit you were born into), and that indoctrination has programmed you to believe things that don't actually exist. I'd like to find a way to determine which of us is correct. How do we do that?
Obviously you can't prove it one way or another. That's the whole point. Are you new?
Nope, I'm old.
But I prefer not to base my life choices on things that are unprovable, and one of us has claims that are backed by at least some amount of evidence (the existence of missionaries, documentation of brainwashing techniques used by the particular church that OP belongs to, documentation of the financial motivations driving said church to continue brainwashing people, the sheer utter logical ridiculousness of the specific claims of that church), and the other does not. So I'll continue taking the default, rational, skeptical position, until there is sufficient evidence to do otherwise.