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this post was submitted on 18 May 2024
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I never suggested that they couldn't.
Personally, I don't think that the "brute force" argument is the best. I think it's arguing from ignorance.
I mean, it's probably both. They would have used a bunch of guys, and maybe oxen, because that was their source of mechanical energy for nearly everything. To make is easier, they would add the cleverest engineering you can do with no formal science and bronze age materials.
How is it arguing from ignorance when, yet again, they showed us that they did just that.
Are you saying the carving is a lie? Why would it be?
They also depict gods with the heads of jackals and birds, beings from other planets, their conception of the afterlife, pornography, and obviously exaggerated claims about the power and influence of the Pharoahs.
I'm saying that we should be skeptical. dubitante omnibus, as Descartes would say...
Not that one, no.
But why would the carving be a lie? What would the benefit be about lying about a lot of people dragging huge pieces of stone on a sledge when a lot of people dragging huge pieces of stone on a sledge would work?
I don't know, my friend. I'm not an archeologist or Egyptologist. I'm just an enthusiast who has read a dozen conflicting theories.
Which of those theories say that large numbers of people did not move large blocks of stone in Egypt and which scientists make those claims?
In other words, no such theories exist.
Believe it or not, it is not my job to prove that you say true things.
It seems like you're out for blood, my friend.
I've cited three academic scientists in this conversation. You're welcome to check them out if you want.
None of your cited scientists make the claim that Egyptians did not move large blocks of stone by pulling them. That was your claim.
Wow, you really got bodied in this debate. This dude came with actual info and you kinda went full debate bro on him.
I'm sure I'll see you picking up some wins in another thread.
His "actual info" didn't prove what he claimed. Did you actually look it up or did you just assume he was telling the truth about it?
I think you might be one of those expert on everything types, it works really well with political garbage, but when you're talking about historical studies of the Egyptian old kingdom that they base on modern calculations of physics using pictographs as a reference... Like it's just sounds silly I guess.
You are arguing for a heterodox interpretation of labor based on pictures drawn by the ruling party that has potentially tens of thousands of people building a giant stone monument, when modern scientists JUST discovered a river they only JUST realized might be there.
Like you just really really need to be right about a field of study that's had like 15 sea changes over the last couple hundred years. It's odd!
So you didn't actually look it up.
Yeah, if that's your take away I guess posting a pictograph and saying "nuh uh" being the crux of your argument on a body of study who's modern history goes back to sprinkling mummy dust on your breakfast makes perfect sense.
Keep up this good!
My takeaway was that the scientists he claim support this idea that they weren't dragged do not say they weren't dragged.
I'm not sure why you think "their claim about what those scientists said isn't true" isn't good enough...
I'm not even sure where you've developed that strawman from what the dude said, his original statement or his future back and forth with you. He said that the brute force argument isn't the best one based on research like the water experimentation on dry sand. That doesn't mean they didn't use brute force in labor, just that it may have been supplemented by techniques we're still investigating. He's not saying they used magic.
Now we know they not only had a easy source of water, we know they had enough water to supplement the power of human labor. You just really wanted to argue so you focused on whatever points you could find disagreement.
The whole argument is based on you really wanting to be unequivocally right about your understanding of how something was built when the article you posted is about a literal groundbreaking discovery that may change our understanding of how it was built. Just seems silly on this one I guess.
No, just a simple machine that no one has ever discovered since.
Which is pretty close to magic.
Unlikely, yes. More likely an implementation of principles in ways we just don't have reference for in documentation, we just discovered that Roman concrete was mixed hot with quick lime. This shit always seems crazy until we figure it out.
Although I don't see anyone saying there were as low as 1,600 workers on the great pyramid. So you right to question that one.
Actually I bet this is where that number came from lol:
https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna46485163
You're caught up in the argument and not paying attention to what the other person is saying.
Think of it this way, that carving might be totally accurate snd still not represent the whole story. It doesn't even really show that many people, I've worked jobs where for a few days there are hundreds of people it's very impressive and the photos always end up somewhere. This could just be intended to capture one key stage or big event, if it could be combining lots of things into one image to show 'there was a huge workforce' it's not a lie or deception but it's also not the whole story.
Brute force was part of how they did it but it certainly wasn't all of it, and most people who've never pulled a big rope don't really think about how hard it is - plus we take it for granted now but having rope that a hundred men can pull on is a feat of engineering in itself.
We know they used boats to transport them most the way, we know they used complex pullies and levers to get them into position, we know they used work teams and various other methods but none of those really solve all the questions which is why it's such an interesting subject to think about.
And yes I know people get silly and talk about aliens or magic acoustic whistles or whatever but that's not what the person you were talking to was doing, things like wet sand and forgotten infrastructure are realistic and logical ideas.
The person I was talking to said that they probably came up with a type of simple machine which has never been rediscovered since.