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Kebab war ignites as Germany fights Turkey over food protection
(www.euronews.com)
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this post was submitted on 25 Jul 2024
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Döner Kebab isn’t even a Turkish specialty. In Turkey, Döner (referring to the meat that turns) is served on a plate with salad and bread. It’s not fast food like the German Döner Kebab, and it’s not meant to be taken to go.
Döner Kebab was invented in Germany by a Turkish immigrant whose traditional Döner didn’t fare well, because Germans were always in a hurry.
Or so the story goes that I heard in a documentary on German TV about 15 years ago.
Eh Australian style doner kebabs or just kebabs as we call them a fast food and not connected to Germany in any way.
I’d wager over 300 years the Turks figured out how to wrap meat in bread. We’re all just doing variations of that.
As for the word, it’s their word. They deserve the same ability to enforce a standard behind it as the EU does champagne and that shit.
Meat in bread indeed is not the German part, for a German Döner veggies and sauce aren't optional, even when served on a plate. Default is Tsatsiki -- not even Cacik, but the Greek stuff, without mint, dill, or extra water. Cucumber, tomato, onions, and some sort of cabbage as veggies, as well as the option of with Scharf, implemented via (usually pickled) Jalapenos and/or Sambal Oelek. There's various things to the whole thing you see in neither German or Turkish cuisine, it is true fusion food, wouldn't be possible without the different cuisines meeting.
As for the word, no, this is like the Italians trying to regulate what "Pizza" means instead of, rightly, regulating what "Pizza Neapolitana" means. If Swedes want to put pineapple in their Döner then Germans are going to join in with Turks calling it a crime against food but we're also not going to stop them.
I've heard all kinds of crazy stuff from outside Germany, like using ketchup or mayonnaise, can't even decide which is worse they're both atrocious choices. There's exactly one valid reason why you would use a sauce that's not yoghurt-based, and that's because you're making a vegan variant -- which would then imitate a yoghurt-based sauce (Vegan is not at all common but veggie options aren't rare, usually replacing meat with falafel otherwise the same concept).
I've eaten a sloppy döner panini at a random train station somewhere once. They used mayonnaise to make it even more greasy. It went hard because I just came home from a ten hour shift. This experience tought me that no food is to sacred to me modified in seemingly disgusting ways. When it's fire it's fire.
Indeed, I got the terminology wrong. „Kebap“ is the meat, „döner” means it turns.
Very much not the case in Germany. I'm not sure the German requirements are even that dissimilar to what Turkey came up with... which shouldn't be surprising, they're practically written by Turks in the sense that "this is what this thing means" in German food law is always based on "this is what good and proper cooks preparing it agree on", and when the guidelines were set those all happened to have been Turkish immigrants.
Not to mention that the industry association complaining are precisely those Turkish immigrants.
I've seen the ingredients on commercial döner meat in a German Döner shop. It's mostly chicken skin
Edit: "meat", and downvote all you like, it doesn't make it untrue
Section 2.511.7, page 65 in the pdf. 18% skin max and no ground meat at all in the case of poultry Döner. If you saw more you either a) didn't see a Döner but a Drehspieß or b) should've contacted authorities.
Birds have skin what do you suppose we do with it, throw it away?
It didn't have percentages, just a list of ingredients and, from what I know, they are listed in order of amount
I meant the info as support for the comment that it was just congealed meat. There were a lot of starches and binders as well
Then you saw something, but definitely not Döner.
I'll grant that it's easier to hide shoddy meat if use lots of spices and sell it mixed with veggies compared to serving it on a plate with rice but that doesn't mean that you can sell just anything as Döner in Germany. The same overall dish concept with stuff shaved from a ground meat skewer isn't nearly as nice, but it's still better than McDonalds so it has its place on the market... as "Ground meat skewer pocket Döner-style", not "Döner". And the Turkish initiative would change nothing about that.
Side note there's a lot of things to look out for when it comes to the quality of a German Döner, how the meat is cut from the skewer is not one of them. It literally makes no difference, yet the initiative wants to regulate the bloody length of the bloody blade. It's pointlessly over-restrictive. Pizza Neapolitana also regulates a lot of things but not the size of the pizza shovel -- as long as it fits into the oven and it's a comfortable size for the cook to handle, who cares? It also doesn't try to define "Pizza", only "Pizza Neapolitana", and if the initiative was restricting itself to the term "Bursa Döner" or something noone would mind.
It may have been some sort of "style" but it was what they were putting on the spit to cut from and being sold as "döner" on the menu.
Actually the pizza definitions do specify the thickness of the crust
Then you should have contacted the authorities. Also shops using cheap meat don't do their own skewers they buy them frozen -- you can also get good meat in frozen form, but if a shop makes their own skewer they're not going to use shoddy ingredients that makes no economical sense at all.
Sensibly so, there's pizza styles with much thicker crusts than Neapolitana (also Italian ones). Not sure that's necessary for Döner simply because noone is cutting the meat off in slabs. 2mm minimum btw sounds rather thick. 5mm are definitely too thick. Heck that's an acceptable lower range for Wienerschnitzel. The maximum makes sense, a minimum not really.
And, as said: If they want to register Bursa Döner to be like that, a specific type of meat without spices and cut in rather thick slices, they're free to (though regulating the length of the blade is still BS). But why shouldn't there be other Döner beside that.
I'll let someone with more skin in the game take care of it. If people notice, they'll go somewhere else, if they don't, then I guess that shop gets away with it.
I thought the sizes were pretty big. It'd end up looking like a steak burrito
If it was invented in Germany then how do you explain Halifax Sauce? /s
checkmate bitches
This can be eaten in different ways... not just a salad. And in the U.S., in Dearborn (Muslim/Arab majority city), this is part of the fast food category, like when asking for a Doner Kabob (Turkish lamb) sandwich.