It's really hard to take either of them seriously because both have been known to lie through their teeth and blatantly violated the rules of war.
It's almost certain that the truth of what happened will never be known for certain, because basically none of the parties to this conflict have any credibility whatsoever.
Well we could have independent journalists but Israel won’t allow any in and shoots them often.
Correct, and that's very much part of the problem. We have very unreliable information about the state of the war. They stop journalists to prevent information from getting out, and they succeeded.
Historically the figures released by the Palestinian health system have been acknowledged as pretty accurate. From the Telegraph : "In previous rounds of fighting in the Strip, the total number of deaths reported by the Gazan authorities have been found to be broadly accurate, not differing significantly from estimates produced by the UN or IDF. There have, however, always been disputes over the civilian/combatant split."
Amazing how reportedly 0 combatants were killed while this rescue happened.
At least one IDF soldier was killed.
The Hamas dead isn't counted separately from the civilians. Never have been. The casualty numbers you see reported is always civilians + Hamas.
Hamas doesn't wear uniforms, so it's difficult for a third party to make an assessment on how many combatants have been killed in this war. Also there's a war happening, so that makes things difficult even when the combatants are all wearing uniforms.
how many had weapons?
Don't check the serial numbers on the weapons tho 👉👈
They have weapons stashed all over the place so they can blend in with the civilian population when changing positions. Which is why they don't wear uniforms.
Smart strategy... if you don't have any concern for the lives of civilians. Which Hamas doesn't.
No it's a great strategy either way we just generally assume the other side isn't jumping with glee to murder indiscriminately.
"In international news, the equivalent of five Americans were killed in Afghanistan today"
-- The Onion, 2008
It’s up to 274 dead now.
https://x.com/sentdefender/status/1799715089936761144
Purportedly one of the hostages was being held in the house of an Al-Jazeera journalist/writer/editor and several members of his family were killed while trying to prevent the hostage from being rescued.
EDIT: Turns out he wasn't an employee of Al-Jazeera, but he wrote opinion pieces for them.
EDIT 2: New article https://www.yahoo.com/news/al-jazeera-denies-connection-journalist-194749492.html - It seems that the female hostage was not the one being held at this location, but rather the three men were. The location is an apartment building and the hostages were being held on the 3rd floor while the journalist was living on the first floor. The claim that the journalist and his family were killed comes from a European based Hamas affiliate.
EDIT 3: Another article - https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/idf-confirms-abdallah-aljamal-was-holding-3-hostages-in-his-home-in-nuseirat-alongside-his-family/ - I don't read Hebrew, but it looks like IDF is confirming that the journalist and his family were the ones holding the hostages, not just someone in the same building.
EDIT 4: Looks like the US media has gotten hold of the story finally, but it's mostly NY Post and Fox news. Looks like they're behind the times because they're just running the Al-Jazeera angle.
Oof Google that name and you get basically zero trustworthy news articles either way. Does "purportedly" even count when it's from twitter? Sounds terrible but I'll wait for a real source
Did you Google the name? Because if you had you'd realize it's not a news organization and they don't make news articles. OSINT stands for Open Source Intelligence, it's basically a discord group of people in the intelligence sector posting things they have heard going on. Looking at their Twitter they seem to cover just about anything and everything, they have stuff about Ukraine, Gaza, France, UAE, Venezuela, etc. Looking for other stories it looks like they beat mainstream media to the story by about 10 hrs.
Looking into the claim itself, it seems that it originated from Israel, but Al-Jazeera's response isn't that the guy is innocent but rather that he never worked for them
https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-805525
Turns out that the guy had written opinion pieces for Al-Jazeera and he mainly worked for the Palestine Chronicle, which is based out of Washington state. It looks like his information was included on Al-JAzeera because he had written opinion pieces, but wasn't actually employed by them. Take that for what you will, but it doesn't change the narrative much.
Turns out that the guy had written opinion pieces for Al-Jazeera and he mainly worked for the Palestine Chronicle
So, basically, the tweet is false, as it strongly implies that he was a photojournalist, writer, and editor at Al Jazeera. Certainly you agree because you outright made the claim. On top of that, your link clearly states, and I quote, that they are "unverified rumors that hostage Noa Argamani had been held at his home in central Gaza’s Nuseirat." Why would al Jazeera make a claim that he wasn't protecting him if they don't know? But I don't even see a link to their denial, so I'm not sure what they actually said.
No offense, but your post makes me very suspect of your implicit claims that this twitter account is in anyway reliable.
Eh, I wouldn't say it's false. The description of the guy comes from Al-Jazeera's website where they say he is a reporter and photojournalist and he did write for Al-Jazeera. If Al-Jazeera is going to post his work and list his information on their website I think it's understandable that people might think he is employed by them.
As for the attack being unverified, the other link I provided stated that the IDF confirmed that address and house (which is time stamped after the article you are referencing). Additionally, a third party who is identified as a Hamas operative in Europe was referenced as a source for these claims in both articles. I don't know how much more confirmed you can get unless you're holding out for Anderson Cooper to be live from the living room?
Finally, I haven't seen anywhere that Al-Jazeera is denying he was doing anything, the only thing they appear to be denying is that he was employed by them. Even then, Al-Jazeera doesn't seem to be making any articles about the guy, the whole thing was correspondence with representatives of Al-Jazeera, this stuff happened so recently I wouldn't be surprised if Al-Jazeera hasn't had time to post anything yet. For context, this information is <24 hours old, the first US article I see about it was only posted an hour ago.
I think it’s understandable that people might think he is employed by them.
Wait, we are claiming this some kind of intelligence community...but it's understandable that they can't even figure out if this guy works for al Jazeera? You'll have to help me square this.
But my claim is that the statement is false, not that they intentionally misled, so even if they were understandably confused, that still seems to be untrue.
I don’t know how much more confirmed you can get unless you’re holding out for Anderson Cooper to be live from the living room?
I have no need to rush to a conclusion on this. I'm just reporting what one of your links said. In your attempt to rush to a conclusion, you already were convinced of a falsehood. Maybe you should slow down too.
Even then, Al-Jazeera doesn’t seem to be making any articles about the guy
I can't help but read your points as attempting to paint al Jazeera as some bad guy in this whole thing. How long ago was this tweet that is from some group that you claim is 10 hours ahead of the news? And we're being critical of al Jazeera for not rushing out an article in that time?
I meant I googled the name of the person the tweet called out. Not much out there from verified sources is what I was saying. I think a paid for twitter check is probably a negative in the trustworthy dept. Thanks for the extra info though. It just all seems to be a one sided narrative at this point.
Ah ok, my apologies. Yeah, there's not much in the way of mainstream international news picking this story up. Pretty much it was just Israel saying they raided XYZ houses, these are the people they found inside. Individuals made the connection to Al-Jazeera and mainstream Israeli media picked it up, but they've backed off a bit once Al-Jazeera clarified.
I'd generally agree with a general dislike of Twitter supporters, but no one has really stepped up to fill in Twitters void (at least that get the same level of traction as Twitter). Paying the Twitter tax still seems to get your information out faster and farther than almost any other alternative. I think the only way Twitter is going to fully fall will be if it no longer is profitable to run, otherwise large groups will continue to use it. One positive is that people seem to be diversifying from Twitter with Lemmy, Mastadon, Reddit, or something else (I guess Discord falls in the something else).
Now if you're just a regular person and paying for Twitter blue then I agree that you're probably not trustworthy or at least a bit stupid.
Holy shit... this place is lousy with pro-genocide hasbara.
And it seems the mods are perfectly fine with that... as usual.
Damn you were right. Scrolled down a bit and they were all over. Did Hasbara finally find Lemmy, or had there been a new wave of propagandized redditors leaving to come here?
They've been here pretty much since the backlash against Israel began. Some communities have managed to get on top of it and drive them out... but it seems some mod teams are either slow on the uptake or have allowed Israeli sympathizers into their ranks - it's unfortunately a consequence of liberal "every-opinion-must-be-treated-as-equal" thinking.
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