Yup, that could also be said about music, cinema and any other form of art/entertainment/distraction. It doesn't produce anything "useful", but again, what is "useful" varies from one person to another. Some would say the waste of money is the point. You blow fireworks because you can.
Ultimately nothing matters because there is no true meaning of life, so anything that pulls you away from the dark nothingness of existence is good to take.
I can't think of other art forms that blow off the hands of so many people, wake up my daughter in terror at 11PM, and make both dogs and veterans suffer for an extended period of time. I'm fine with the large group spectacle that is planned and controlled. What I can't stand is the widespread uncontrollable nonsense of just anyone buying them and setting them off at any hour on the 4th. Law enforcement can do absolutely nothing about it. I'm just gonna have to deal with it. I'm just surprised we haven't collectively shifted to something less harmful.
Not just dogs or other pets, but also farm and wild animals. And it may not only lead to suffering, but also lead to their deaths.
Yeah but none of them are anywhere near as ephemeral as a firework display.
That doesn't make them more/less worth it.
If your criteria for worthiness is persistence then is a nice looking meal as worth it as equally nutritious goop ?
Fireworks are a cool spectacle, imagine never seeing a fireworks show. Also the money isnt gone, its just changed hands.
They probably shouldnt be how they are now though, where every individual family wants to fire their own, thats a waste and really obnoxious when its in the middle of neighborhoods. Keep it to one centralized show, away from residential areas, and everyone gets to watch a bigger show.
As a veteran with PTSD, I agree
My uncle came back from Vietnam with really bad PTSD (among other problems like alcoholism). Every fourth he would spend the whole day/night in the basement with the curtains drawn (to block out the flashes) and headphones on with the sound turned all the way up (to block out the sounds).
He would also take my cousins to buy fireworks every year.
I don't mean to minimize your struggle, I just thought the juxtaposition was interesting.
I hope you could work through your struggles. I'm happy to say he was able to. He was able to quit drinking and minimize the effects of his PTSD. By the end of his life he was out there watching us shoot off the fireworks.
The long and the short of it is that we live in a society of different people who enjoy different things. Nearly everything is a trade off of some sort. Some people value the enjoyment they get from fireworks more than others. Some hate it. That is true of litterally everything. I strongly dislike the keeping of pets on anything smaller than a farm. But I don't tell people they shouldn't have pets. Being part of a society means living with a mix of things you like and don't. And the society determines what is so commonly disliked that it should be not allowed by the law. Now many will say the fireworks are illegal in a lot of places. Yes so is speeding. Our system has three parts, the laws, the enforcement, and the penalties. Enforcement of fireworks laws are often pretty lax, same with speeding. And the penalties are almost always purely monetary. So society has said it doesn't really care that much about fireworks. And the large number of people who use them and who show up to fireworks shows backs that up.
I have a dog who would agree. If he could speak English (he's from Mexico).
Can't you say the same about virtually any form of entertainment? The electricity that runs the server you used to post this doesn't come from nowhere.
I don't think this is a fair comparison. Fireworks launch a lot of nanoparticles, metals, and other harmful chemicals in the sky and directly worsen air quality while many Lemmy servers (lemmy.world included) use renewable energy.
I think a fairer comparison in entertainment would be sport. On paper it doesn't produce anything to better humanity, there's a ridiculous amount of fuel used by teams and fans to travel especially when it comes to something like a World Cup because it's on a global scale.
In reality, the world absolutely needs it because that's what people use to entertain themselves. People can't be mindless drones fucking about; they won't just read books all the time or go camping every day. There's something primal that just comes out when it comes to sport and most people can't live without it.
The materials to make the servers don't come from nowhere. And the processes to get those materials are often very polluting.
Fireworks are a celebration of peace. They’re made from the same ingredients as bullets but they make something beautiful instead of death. I’ve always found this a profoundly meaningful thing.
A local, professional display uses about 80lb of gunpowder (NEQ). When combusted this will produce about 40lb of CO2. To put this in context, most new internal combustion engines will produce about 190gm of CO2 per mile.
Therefore a single car would need to travel 88 miles to emit the equivalent amount of CO2 of your typical fireworks display. If you consider the a round trip distance for the entire audience to watch a single fireworks display, gunpowder is a fraction of the CO2 footprint.
The problem is pollution, not GHG emissions. Particles, NOx, Plastic debris...
On top of that your local fauna is not at all prepared for the nosie and light pollution.
Again, probably more particles, NOx, Plastic debris etc. from the audience.
Any football game with a flyover is multiple times more polluting.
Waste of money? No more so than any other form of entertainment that is temporary.
Environmentally, yeah…they’re pretty bad. Air pollution is a big issue. Some birds get killed when they run into things because they can’t see very well after being scared off by the fireworks. Any large human event is environmentally bad, like a sporting event.
We generate literal tons of plastic and other human waste when we gather for mass entertainment.
Fireworks are like. 000000000000001% of a concern for GHG.
You shut down a coal plant for 1 days because you switched to solar temporarily and you probably offset the output.
It's only a waste if you don't enjoy it. Just like some people think painting a bunch of nonsensical images is a waste of time and money but you might thoroughly enjoy it
I wouldn't say it's ridiculous if it's once a year. If we did it every night...yeah. But people spend more money on a lot dumber stuff, like expensive purses and giant luxury trucks.
I think they're amazing. The chemistry of colored flame has fascinated me since I was young, and there's nothing quite like being close to explosions. If I had more time and lived in the US I'd be a hobby pyrotechnician.
I hate fireworks and always have. I get people like them, but I wish they didn't go all night from every direction. If each area had a central park/spot where they did a big firework show for everyone for a little bit I wouldn't mind it as much, but now every street has they're own fireworks that go off randomly through the night.
Also something I don't think a lot of people think about. In my old neighborhood a lot of us had varying forms on PTSD and couldn't deal with the loud bangs. Holidays where fireworks were heavy were treated as a ceasefire/peace day for the most part since basically everyone who had been involved in a shooting was a mess, which was almost everyone. Others took the chance to disrespect that and use the fireworks as cover, they weren't treated well.
I'm sure most veterans feel the same or worse.
It's not just dogs who lose it at fireworks.
Of course they are a waste of money, and the plastic packaging is incredibly bad for the environment. And they are fun and I will buy them again next year.
I like them. The big shows are a rare form of artistic expression. And even the stuff you can buy, is a form of fun you cannot get anywhere else.
Drone shows are boring. You can watch them on a screen and lose none of the experience. I mean, the first time you see it it's interesting, but then you remember it's just a bunch of drones, and your going to be stuck in traffic just so you can see a pixilated coke can or something. There's nothing unique or special about the experience I feel. Unlike fireworks, while they can look fine on a screen (if recorded properly) but you can see the difference on someone's face when you're there. You see it, feel it, and smell it. It makes sense why humans have been doing this for hundreds of years.
I think they're fun
I am not worried about their environmental impact, but I hate seeing my dog spending the evening shaking because of the explosions. Even sedatives aren't enough. If you could have fireworks without the big booms, I wouldn't care, but the big booms scare the shit out of a lot of animals.
I love animals. So I would agree with you. I do enjoy watching fireworks but it's not worth the suffering of innocence creatures.
Fire, explosions and bang sounds are fun. It gets old quick (I'm not a fan of firework shows), but I do enjoy lighting a small bunch of fireworks with some friends once a year or two.
Edit: I hear the argument for poor puppers, and I'm not saying I don't care about them, but I'm pointing out the argument that they're not just a complete waste of money/pollution
It hurts so many animals too.
Fireworks are a funny one because you're completely right and also not completely right I think. It's one of those unresolvable dichotomies of life where two opposing ideas are both true at the same time. I've often thought fireworks were the most obvious way to set fire to a lot of money that could be better used somewhere else. However, what is also true is that humans have a deep need to celebrate and to come together in large groups and have shared experiences. Fireworks are perfect for that. You can put a million people together and launch a massive firework display and they will all immediately connect with each other through the shared experience of going "Oooooohh" and "Aaaaaaahh" :) Fireworks are awesome and also, personally I feel they remind me that there are bigger things out there than the daily grind of existence.
2.7 billion dollars gone in a cloud of smoke.
... you know that's not how money works right?
in this part of the world, we are blessed with stray dogs who are also protected by our supreme court. it's quite literally against the law, for example, to prohibit the feeding of strays by animal lovers.
i once saw one of them shudder and whine at the sound of fireworks. its tail scrunched under and it pissed itself in fear and confusion. its plaintive moans were drowned out by the incessant blasts of the "mala" crackers (a literal garland of 10,000 or so crackers strung out in sequence that goes on bursting for an hour or so). the poor thing just did not know what was happening and it became a shivering ball of anxiety until the blasts stopped.
anyone who sees an innocent animal suffer like that will never, ever, want to light a firecracker again.
I'm ok with professional firework shows.
I'm not ok for every kid in the neighborhood having access to little explosives.
i think fireworks are nice but they're to a large degree something from a different age and at this point we should only really be using smaller volcano-style ones, and like holy shit we have drone technology, why aren't drone displays standard in any vaguely populated area?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lnBmYAiduo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyEWcfn7rT0
look at this shit, it's so cool! can we please push for this to be the standard?
Good news then!
NPR: Why drone light shows are replacing traditional July 4th fireworks
Cities like Napa, Calif., and Salt Lake City, Utah, have opted out of traditional pyrotechnics this year. They say they're worried about pollution and the risk of wildfires, so instead, they'll create a tribute to America with a light show made by drones.
I definitely think they can and are often overdone. Where I'm from civilian fireworks use is very uncommon unless you're out in the sticks. So we get at most 2 municipal fireworks display per year, New year's eve and Canada day. New year's eve fireworks happen some years and don't others.
I personally love fireworks. The awe of the display is never lost upon me. I can see it becoming old if it's something you deal with all the time. That isn't an issue here though and I always step outside to watch them when a display is done locally.
It's like asking a texan to get rid of their monster truck. Sure they live with their parents and never use the truck for work. But it's just not gonna happen buddy.
My city had a drone show this year and it kinda sucked. I probably won't go again
I mean, yes and no. The festivals I visit and my gaming PC are also a complete waste of energy when you view it like that. I hate the dangerous situations we have every year in the Netherlands with fireworks. The heavy fireworks and loud bangs, the vandalism. But I'm okay with the people who send a lot of nice colourful fireworks into the sky around new year's eve, and the farmers with their loud "carbid" launchers.
They also scare the crap out of my dog, and cause a lot of accidents. Though, they can be beautiful...
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