Let's be honest, the whole thing has always been a little weird.
I'm German and learned about this via a friend from the US. When they mentioned it, I thought their teacher was a lunatic. Then they told me that this is normal course of action. Just what in the absolute fuck.
Yes. It's far more than "a little weird". It's how you breed nationalists.
USA hasn't run into the consequences of nationalism hard enough yet when it backfires.
I am not looking forward to the find out stage of all this fucking around.
It depends on where and when in the US. In areas that are Democratic (the more liberal party) it doesn't really happen much anymore, but in areas that are Republican (the more conservative party) it still happens at the start of every single school day.
And the custom of doing this was started by a salesman trying to sell flags and magazine subscriptions. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Bellamy#Pledge_of_Allegiance
They really make it too easy to draw the parallels:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bellamy_salute
It's state law where I live IIRC. They force you to say it, because of legal precedent, but the school can apparently get in trouble with the state if they don't say it at the start of the day.
It was always funny when we'd all stand up and only the teachers and maybe three students would say it.
In high school like 15 years ago we not only had the regular pledge, we had to pledge to the Texas state flag. Which you hold out your hand like you are holding something?
"Honor the Texas flag; I pledge allegiance to thee, Texas, one state under God, one and indivisible."
It's all hot garbage and unquestioning nationalism. The good bit was, only one teacher ever gave me flack for sitting out the pledge with my little emo ass. And that was my ultra conservative AP US Government teacher. And he was just a nut ball. But when I framed it as my freedom he chilled.
He was still wrong about flat taxes not being regressive!
but how can you pledge allegiance to two separate entities?
scenario A: if texas ever attempted secession then you’d have to break one of your pledges.
scenario B: Texas always remains loyal to the US, which makes the texas pledge superfluous. you pledged allegiance to the US which includes texas.
It's to incept the idea of secession into little kids head's. Paint Texas as self sufficient and not dependent at all. Then make em want to leave.
I hate this state, but if all the liberals leave, it will only get worse for the next set of young people born here.
A little weird?
Such a creepy thing, getting children to chant in devotion to a state flag in schools.
It's the sort of thing they probably do in places like NK, or the Third Reich, you don't expect it to come from a supposedly modern, non imperialist nationalistic nation, ya know? :-(
I'm from the UK, my wife is from Singapore, and our son was born in the US. I really don't think it's appropriate to force him to pledge allegiance to the US, because he has strong ties to other countries. It feels like brainwashing.
It is brain washing.
Where I'm from children sing the national anthem once a week at the school assembly and usually a few other songs too.
There are typically no flags.
In French schools that kind of indoctrination would be immediately likened to the Nazi-empowered Vichy government in the 40s.
But you know, the grandchildren of those have brainwashed enough people that they're already seeing themselves in power right now, so maybe we'll get that again soon, and a lot worse?
French people, vote today. Please.
Such a creepy thing, getting children to chant in devotion to a state flag in schools.
Apparently, schools will have to display the ten commandments in classrooms, which means all the kiddies with functional brains get to wonder why chanting to a piece of colored fabric isn't considered worshipping a false idol.
Also, all the military recruiters will get to awkwardly explain the whole "thou shallt not kill" thing...
all the kiddies with functional brains
It is the job of the education system to root out these potential future threats to social order.
If you take a look at pre 1943 US, you might see some inspirations for Hitler there.
The Bellamy Salute was pretty much the same. The Pledge of Allegiance was done with it. It was changed to the hand over heart style in 1942.
I said it once, I say it again. Why the Flag? I don't get it. Why not the Constitution? The Flag changed so many Times in US history.
Is there an actual reason or just because the flag is a more visual Token for loyalty?
I think it's because the people who made the pledge were just trying to sell flags. "A flag in every classroom" or something to that effect. So, once again, the answer is capitalism.
Even worse, some versions of the pledge make you swear "under god" which is fucked up. Christian Nationalists are what is destroying america.
~~Christian Nationalists~~Religious fundamentalists are what is destroying ~~america~~ everything
FDFY
It's not that I disagree, but it seems like a very separate statement with very little connection to the main topic of this discussion.
We have a very specific and very pressing issue in the USA that deserves more focus than your broad global stroke.
I remember when 1 student in my class said she wasn't doing the pledge and the teacher said something along the lines of "it's a free country so you don't have to" almost no one did from that point on.
I was made to sing the national anthem in front of my whole class
A country that truly believes in freedom and democracy shouldn't require you to take a loyalty oath every day.
This whole thing is such a mind fuck and crazy process for people outside merica. I really thought it was a joke on movies, but realising that they are really all brainwashed since children like this makes a lot more sense when you consider everything.
The Conservatives here in the UK wanted to enforce something similar, but in the form of a patriotic song. Everybody just laughed. That would never fly here!
The "and" is the really wierd part.
If they had worded it as "I pledge allegiance to the flag, to the republic for which it stands" you could think: "Ok, the flag is just a symbol of the country, you're actually just pledging allegiance to the country."
But, the "and" makes it clear that it's to the country and to the flag. How can you have allegiance to a flag? It isn't even about pledging to respect the flag, it's "allegiance". It's like pledging obedience to the colour blue, or pledging fealty to the sound of applause.
See, I'm playing both sides so that I always come out on top.
Memes aside, it's totally not a form of brainwashing to have young children pledge allegiance to the flag before they're even old enough to understand the concept of pledges or allegiances!
I grew up in America and have lived in Canada for seven years now. I've come to recognize that Canadians (except for the staunch conservatives who aren't pleased with anything) are proud and loyal to Canada because it's a beautiful country that has (for the most part) taken pretty good care of its people. Americans are proud and loyal mostly because they were brainwashed throughout their lives by pledges, patriotic songs, and tall tales about the founding fathers. I personally found little to be proud of in my thirty years as an American.
Also, one time a pair of planes took down some skyscrapers. Alan Jackson wrote a song about it, and America invaded an unrelated country. That made people really proud too.
I pledge Ally Sheedy to the slag
Of the United Skates of Emilio
And to the repugnant
for Richard Stanz
One naked undergarment
Invisible man
With Liberace and puffed rice for all.
Stop thinking for yourself, Corey.
Blindly accept allegiance to the piece of fabric we chose, Corey.
Just say the words and be indoctrinated into our cult to be a mindless slave with unwavering loyalty, Corey.
Do as we say, Corey.
For real though, what happens if you don’t say the words?
The First Ammendemnt protects your right to not participate in reciting the pledge of allegiance:
In 2006, in the Florida case Frazier v. Alexandre, a federal district court in Florida ruled that a 1942 state law requiring students to stand and recite the Pledge of Allegiance violates the First and Fourteenth Amendments of the U.S. Constitution. As a result of that decision, a Florida school district was ordered to pay $32,500 to a student who chose not to say the pledge and was ridiculed and called "unpatriotic" by a teacher.
In 2009, a Montgomery County, Maryland, teacher berated and had school police remove a 13-year-old girl who refused to say the Pledge of Allegiance in the classroom. The student's mother, assisted by the American Civil Liberties Union of Maryland, sought and received an apology from the teacher, as state law and the school's student handbook both prohibit students from being forced to recite the Pledge. reference
You might suffer some immediate consequences from ignorant people, but courts have repeatedly upheld that this is protected by the First Amendment. Even the current Supreme Court would have a hard time justifying overturning this precedent.
You could even argue that choosing not to participate is a highly patriotic act, as an exercise of your Constitutional rights as a citizen.
I've always viewed not participating to be patriotic. You are under no obligation to provide oaths to this country, and refusing to do so under peer pressure is can be an act of patriotism.
There's always that one teacher...
Or at least there was in my case
If a teacher punishes you then they are violating you're enumerated constitutional rights. You could litterally sue them or the school administration and you could get money.
I got fucking nuclear on my daughter's 6th grade permanent "substitute" teacher for taking my daughter out in the hallway and lecturing her when she refused to say the pledge. I didn't prompt my daughter to not say the pledge, she just decided not to because, in her words at the time, "it's stupid to say a pledge to a flag." And my daughter is not one who is easy to get to do something she thinks is incredibly stupid. Sent her multiple links about West Virginia v. Barnette and the like.
She apologized to me (not my daughter) and also lied that taking her into the hall and giving her a private talk wasn't a punishment, but my daughter didn't have to say the pledge anymore. She told me other kids also refused to once she did, but whether that means one or ten, I don't know.
As for that teacher, I found out after the school year was over that she was telling the kids that Trump really won the 2020 election and it was all a big hoax. I would have once again gone nuclear, that time at the school system, but she had already quit for a job at a private Christian school.
By the way, this woman's previous teaching credentials were "running a children's theater." Indiana sucks.
When I was in school, generally nothing, the teacher might bother you about it, but they for the most part don't care and would rather move on with the day.
Sometimes kids parents would devise a reason to exclude their kid, but it was effectively optional, though generally encouraged.
Note: No government employee can ever legally demand that a citizen recite the pledge.
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