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How dare she not view the world in stark black-and-white terms!
She's throwing out the whole playbook and trying this new thing the hipsters are calling: "Nuance" . This lady has some balls, what's next?? CONTROLLING YOUR EMOTIONS???
I love me a lady with huge balls.
I would assume most rapists aren't government whistle blowers and their victims most likely have no reason to hold a nuanced view.
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A(n actual) Christian deacon who believes in forgiveness????
ObViOuSLy HeS iNnOcEnT!/1!
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She just seems to believe in due process and fairness. Obviously, what happened to Assange so far hasn't been either.
I mean her case was investigated and he was freed to leave the country afterward. It didn't come back with a vengeance until it could be used as a means to put him where the US could get at him.
What about the 3rd man, who espouses his organization isn't an arbiter of information, and yet, repeatedly prevented Russian leaks from being published? 🤔
And with the Russian invasion of Ukraine, where is wikileaks now?
Cozy Bear really appreciated having such a loyal publisher, I imagine.
This, to me, is less important than the fact that this woman is publicly talking about how someone can do a bad thing but still be a public good, something not talked about enough in a world where when someone does something bad, it makes people ignore everything else they're doing.
I have struggled with this a lot in recent years. For example, I grew up with Ender's Game as my favorite book. Orson Scott Card is a racist/misogynistic/etc POS, and it has tainted my view of his books. People are experiencing this with J. K. Rowling right now.
I like to think I can keep the artist separate from their art, but it's hard.
I dealt with that as a kid with Roald Dahl because he was super antisemitic, but he also wrote amazing children's books. I guess for me it depends on how much they put such ugliness into their work. Lovecraft, creative as he was, had no problem being racist in his writings and I just can't read them even though I love the mythos. Dahl didn't do that.
Card and Rowling are somewhat different cases because they didn't start by writing terrible things, but they got to the point that their ugly beliefs began to seep into their books.
Dahl is another great example. I loved his book as a kid, and still read them to my kid now.
Me too, but I couldn't get through Great Glass Elevator. I try my best to voice all the characters, and I couldn't get through the president's phone calls with China, even toned down.
The Rowling shift is a gut punch in particular for me because I also long admired her specifically. A single impoverished mother writing her drafts on napkins while taking the train to work. Her work for Amnesty International. Her fierce rejection of right-wing extremism and fascism...I remember saving her Harvard commence address as being the most powerful one I've ever heard. The road to hell is paved with good intentions? I don't know. Frustrating because INFJ-to-INFJ I relate to her personality type.
Meanwhile her books were incredibly impactful of my upbringing and my relationship with my mother as well.
Controversial though this may be I don't view her as some evil anti-Semitic trans-lynching nazi in lieu of her views. Misguided, sure, but in the aggregation of all she is I'm still struggling with the mixed bag of her character. Maybe that's my own cognitive dissonance; maybe it's hers.
Edit: Side-note, Ender's Game and Ender's Shadow were incredible books. I'm only heartbroken that the opportunity was missed to have Anton Yelchin cast as Ender in a better film adaptation we shall never see.
The worst part with Rowling is she just keeps doubling down, and directly uses her money and influence to make other peoples lives worse.
I was with you until you called her misguided. She is way beyond misguided at this point. She's gotten so hateful that even Elon Musk told her to tone down the anti-trans bigotry.
https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/elon-musk-jk-rowling-trans-obsession-rcna151323
Sure, substitute whichever word you'd like in place of misguided. I'm not sure if that changes the rest of my points. Especially within the context of this entire thread discussing nuance and not painting people in black-and-white.
I wouldn't substitute any word in that case because there is absolutely no excusing her at this point. Her actions are indefensible. Love her books, fine, but she is a horrible, horrible person and her bigotry does not deserve to be excused by calling it misguided or anything else but bigotry. If she said about black people what she says about trans people, that wouldn't even be a consideration in terms of talking about her.
Well now I'm a little confused. Did I find a point of cognitive dissonance in you? In one breath you defend Assange under fire for sexual assault and to consider nuance, but this is too far?
And since when do we care what Elon Musk has to say? He called someone a pedophile, too, remember? Should we jump on the bandwagon with that just the same?
Love her books, fine, but she is a horrible, horrible person
I am literally talking about separating someone from her work. I don't know how I could have been clearer on that point. But that doesn't mean what she says is in any way excusable or defensible. Bigotry is bigotry.
Okay I see what you're saying, I think. I went back to re-read your comment:
This, to me, is less important than the fact that this woman is publicly talking about how someone can do a bad thing but still be a public good, something not talked about enough in a world where when someone does something bad, it makes people ignore everything else they’re doing.
So your general perception of Assange is that he is an irredeemable rapist asshole who's done good work and you respect his accuser for distinguishing those in the same respect you view the character of Rowling as irredeemable and a hateful bigot who's done good work. Do I have that correct?
Yes. I feel that if someone has done good work, even if they are a horrible person, acknowledging the good work is the right thing to do. Even if they wrong you personally. That makes it much more difficult, but I still think it's something that needs to be done.
My former best friend ripped my mom off for drug money by lying about what he needed it for and is now in prison for possessing meth lab equipment. He's a horrible person in a lot of ways. But I will still acknowledge the good things he did as good things (he was always willing to give someone a place to stay if they needed it and for as long as they needed it, for example) even if he has done things I can't forgive him for.
I guess in my view, the bad has to far outweigh the good if you're going to ignore the good and I think that, while I also have a lot of criticisms about what he has done with Wikileaks, especially around the 2016 election, I also think that Wikileaks- at least when it began- did a lot of good. And credit does go to him for that despite anything else. His victim in the article seems to agree.
Fair enough. Thanks for the elaboration and discussion.
Exactly the same way I felt reading your comment when you inserted astrology for nerds into it!
How could you ruin your previous work so profoundly?
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I had the same experience with Scott Card. I loved the Ender books, the books about his older brother trying to be a good person when he was a "bad child" really resonated with me.
I was so disappointed when I looked him up and saw how hateful he really was.
I was a big fan of the Belgariad growing up... that one is fucking rough.
Uuh what? What did Eddings do? (Genuine, I don't know)
Honestly, it's pretty fucking rough so I don't want to post it here - if you Google "Eddings abuse" you'll get the results.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Eddings
TL;DR: child abuse of their adopted children in the 1970's.
I like to think I can keep the artist separate from their art, but it’s hard.
You can't, but in some cases the art stands for itself without the artist. Basically, you can separate the Art from an Artist, but not the Artist from the Art. (if that makes any sense...)
I had the same experience with Arthur C. Clarke.
He moved to Sri Lanka to dodge all the accusations of pedophilia. It was all hushed up. As was the custom at the time.
That's fair. That isn't where my own head is currently but I do appreciate nuance for once. People can be complicated, and I'm certain she knows the real Assange better than most.
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I still see absolutely no reason to lock him up. Just because he's biased towards one side that doesn't make the crimes of the other side any better. Ideally, yes, he should publish everything. But that's not the case. And it's still irrelevant.
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And with the Russian invasion of Ukraine, where is wikileaks now?
I mean what do you want him to leak? Everything is out there for everyone to see.
If you're saying this tongue-in-cheek to note that it's flatly obvious that Putin is a corrupt imperialist tyrant, true I agree. But there is always more damaging information to be revealed not just to the world but internally to the people of Russia within the echo-chamber. For instance, more on Putin's personal finances. More on Aleksandr Dugin, Putin's neo-nazi Rasputin, etc.
Did Assange ever have access to that information? I admittedly don't know the details but I don't tbink he was ever in that kind of position.
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Speaking to Ardin over Zoom in Stockholm...
That place does seem to have a certain effect on people.
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this post was submitted on 07 Jul 2024
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