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submitted 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) by Social_Discussion@lemm.ee to c/asklemmy@lemmy.ml

Hey everyone, I'm new to Lemmy and just starting to figure this site out. I mainly moved here because of the censorship on Reddit where they didn't publish posts that included the slightest word not allowed by their filter and they removed/blocked lots of content. I wonder if it will be somewhat better here (on the official site it says "Censorship resistant - By hosting your own server, you can be in full control of your content.").

The weird thing I saw with Lemmy was when I wanted to sign-up on the "lemmy.ml" server instance that according to the official Lemmy Servers listing page is a "A community of privacy and FOSS enthusiasts, run by Lemmy’s developers".

So I thought I try that one when it's from Lemmy's own developers. When I wanted to sign-up it required an application that you needed to fill out with one of the requirements being having to copy a sentence from the link provided which links to some article called "The Principles of Communism" which I thought was very odd for a site to do. I've never seen a site like this promoting some ideology that directly where it's part of the sign-up process to almost pledge to some political or religious ideology.

This seemed very sketchy to me. Does anyone know something about this?

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[-] juliebean@lemm.ee 128 points 1 month ago

it's not sketchy, it's basically a captcha to keep down automated bot sign ups, and they link to that document in particular, i assume, because the devs are marxists and figure folks who are vehemently anti-communist would refuse and thus keep down their moderation load.

[-] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 50 points 1 month ago

The most correct answer here honestly.

[-] Noel_Skum@sh.itjust.works 71 points 1 month ago

.ml is treated as a bit of a bogeyman around here - most of my interactions with their instance and users has been good. I realise this could be different for others. But, yes, they are Marxist-Leninist so, obviously, their opinions and content will be closely aligned with their political philosophy. In my personal opinion and experience .world seems to have vacuumed-up a tremendous amount of people from the other site you mentioned (Robbit?). Their netiquette seems to have not changed. Also, myself and some others have noticed that on .world it’s not unusual to see comments that express views from outside what the majority believe get deleted. Fortunately the “mod logs” are public record so you can see why comments were deleted, whom by and what the original post/comment was. (I guess with the exception of illegal content that has to be scrubbed) I hope you enjoy your time here. Welcome.

[-] davel@lemmy.ml 31 points 1 month ago

(I guess with the exception of illegal content that has to be scrubbed)

Correct. There is a “purge” feature, but I’ve not yet had to resort such measures after several months of admining.

[-] Noel_Skum@sh.itjust.works 20 points 1 month ago

Thank you (and your fellow admins) for all you do and the time you sacrifice. It is appreciated, by me at least. I don’t even want to consider what vile obscenity you run the risk of exposing yourselves to and I’m happy you’ve not yet had to purge anything; but there’s some sick individuals out there and I’m glad you’re a bulwark against that.

[-] CrimeDad@lemmy.crimedad.work 70 points 1 month ago

Seems like a simple task to help verify that you are not a bot. It might also help deter applicants who are anti-communist. I guess you solved the problem for yourself by choosing a different instance.

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[-] StrawberryPigtails@lemmy.sdf.org 69 points 1 month ago

Welcome to the Fediverse! Somebody has probably told you this, but I just realized that I forgot to hit "Post" before I went to dinner. Here it is anyways.

When I wanted to sign-up it required an application that you needed to fill out with one of the requirements being having to copy a sentence from the link provided which links to some article called “The Principles of Communism” which I thought was very odd for a site to do. I’ve never seen a site like this promoting some ideology that directly where it’s part of the sign-up process to almost pledge to some political or religious ideology.

The applications and copying of a particular line is a simple form of spam prevention. The fact that the line is from “The Principles of Communism" is probably because the owners of that particular instance (who are also the main developers) are communist. I believe they also run Lemmygrad, which is full on Marxist, and one of the more commonly blocked instances. Lemmy.ml is intended to be a more mainstream instance but like much of the Fedi leans hard left.

I mainly moved here because of the censorship on Reddit where they didn’t publish posts that included the slightest word not allowed by their filter and they removed/blocked lots of content. I wonder if it will be somewhat better here

Lemmy is censorship resistant, but not censorship free. There is a difference. Censorship (or moderation, depending on your view point) happens at 3 levels, user, community, and instance. You can't do much if other users find you obnoxious and decide to block you, but if you find the moderation of a community to be over bearing and if your current instance allows, you can create your own community from your current instance and mod it how you see fit within the guidelines of your instance. If you find your instance's moderation to be overbearing, you can create your own instance and moderate it however you see fit. However, you will still be subject to the moderation policies of the communities (and their home instances) that you subscribe to.

In the Fedi you have absolute freedom of speech, but nobody is required to give you a soapbox or megaphone and nobody is required to listen to you.

[-] can@sh.itjust.works 51 points 1 month ago

Censorship resistant - By hosting your own server, you can be in full control of your content.").

Yes, exactly, you can host your own or sign up at one someone's already hosts. The resistance is in the ability to choose which admins you trust and align with your views while still interacting with the rest of us.

The devs run their own and have their own rules and censorship but you don't have to sign up there. Does that help?

[-] Social_Discussion@lemm.ee 20 points 1 month ago

Helps a lot, thanks for your answer!

[-] griefstricken@lemmy.ml 47 points 1 month ago

Open source is inherently political and you depend on software being developed by communists. We are here to evade corporate censorship, censor reactionaries, spread agitprop, and discuss raising the quality of life of all working people.

Not just tech workers. Everyone.

[-] _ed@sopuli.xyz 43 points 1 month ago

The fact that each instance can have its own rules and culture is f a b. I love that’s one of the criteria. Mander.xyz should have a ‘identify all the creatures from the Triassic’ image captcha.

[-] Sal@mander.xyz 16 points 1 month ago

I don't know how to set up a specific image captcha, but I like that idea! I have added that to the registration form 😛

[-] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 37 points 1 month ago

The developers of Lemmy are Communists, they don't hide this fact.

To answer your first question, there are no "free speech" instances in wide use, depending on your point of view an instance might be "censoring" or fighting "misinformation." It's up to you to pick an instance you want.

[-] AnnaFrankfurter@lemmy.ml 27 points 1 month ago

Yeah lemmy.ml is full of commie bastards...😂😂😂

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[-] eldavi@lemmy.ml 25 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

most people have answered your questions so i want to chime in with the information that i wish someone had told me when i first joined:

a lot of people came to lemmy from reddit like you and i both did and also mostly for the same reasons. most of them went to lemmy.world because it was the first search result on the big search engines like google & bing. those people have turned lemmy.world into a mini reddit and ended up recreating the same problems that reddit has plus more; hence the bot check that you ran into when you signed up.

the original instances of lemmy all have a strong leftist bent; i think of it like if r/politics; r/anarchy/; r/communism; r/socialism; etc. went off and created another social media platform and then started discussing everything like reddit does, but from this perspective. instances is the name given to individual servers and all those servers combined is nicknamed the lemmyverse, or lemmy, for short.

the fediverse is the nickname given to the pubg protocol that's shared between all the platforms that use it like lemmy, mastadon, kbin, threads, bluesky, etc and that means that the conversations from all of those platforms are shared amongst each other so it's possible to be on lemmy and have a conversation with someone on kbin, for example. i stick with lemmy because it's doesn't have any venture capital investors pushing the admins to enshitify it to maximize profits like has been happening to reddit and bluesky; i've been moving from one social media platform to another because of enshitification like reddit's since the 1990s (before it was called social media) so this last part matters to me a lot.

i started off on lemmy.world like most ex-redditors did and discovered that they've duplicated the censorship thing that reddit likes to do with defederations so i switched to lemmy.ml since it doesn't defederate with anybody due to fact they're the primary instance where lemmy development takes place. the federation is what makes lemmy decentralized and when you defederate; you cut yourself off from the rest of the lemmyverse, but lemmy.world and some of the other instances that got most of the ex-redditors like the star trek instance use it to try cut off content and people from the instances that they don't like and that's their right since it's their instance. lemmy is decentralized so trying to cut out people & content only serves to cut yourself off and that's intention behind the fediverse; to make it so that no power tripping mod or ban happy admin can stop the conversation like they do on reddit.

everything is done by volunteers and donations and, if you don't like one instance; you can move onto any other one and still get a similar experience. i don't like letting other people decide what i can & can't see and who i can & can't talk to so i mostly stick to the instances that don't defederate with anybody like lemmy.ml and i use the block-people and block-communities features when i feel like i need them for myself.

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[-] KoboldCoterie@pawb.social 24 points 1 month ago

There's plenty of censorship on Lemmy, but unlike Reddit, the censorship is orchestrated by the individual server, not by a corporation in control of the whole ecosystem. Go post something pro-capitalist on lemmy.ml, or something claiming climate change is a hoax on slrpnk.net, or something anti-trans on lemmy.blahaj.zone and see how fast it gets taken down - you could consider that censorship, but the reason Lemmy is better than Reddit in this regard is that you can go post that same thing on another instance, in a community that supports those views, and it'll stay up. It's all up to the administration of the individual instance.

Even if you can't find an instance / community that will espouse your unique views, you can create your own, and post whatever you like, and everyone who federates with you will be able to see it. That's how Lemmy is resistant to censorship.

I'm not touching the lemmy.ml question with a ten foot pole, someone else can field that one.

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[-] SorteKanin@feddit.dk 24 points 1 month ago

The fediverse is not really about avoiding censorship as it is about providing choice. That means the choice to listen to who you want to listen to (i.e. what servers to (de)federate from/to), the choice to post whatever you want (but you might get banned from your own instance or any other instance, that's their prerogative), the choice of administrators and moderators (i.e. which instance you sign up to and what communities you participate in).

All of that stuff doesn't really have to do with censorship directly, but it has implications for censorship. The fediverse is not built primarily to avoid censorship though, and in some cases it is made to make "censorship" (moderation) easier, rather than harder.

[-] teawrecks@sopuli.xyz 19 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

If you have an email address, you're already used to the federated service pattern. When you sign up for a gmail, you're making an account with Google to be able to send emails to anyone else with an email address. And there's nothing stopping Google from making you fill out a "sketchy" application to get an account.

On Lemmy, each instance has its own set of rules, and if you don't like them, you just make an account on a different instance.

As far as censorship, each "community" (analog to subreddit) lives on a certain instance and the rules of that instance apply.

Edit: also on the topic of communism, however you feel about communism in the physical world is irrelevant when it comes to the digital world. Free and Open Source Software makes the world go 'round, and is often communist in nature, even if done unintentionally. The pattern of people developing software for their own purposes, and then sharing it freely with others is the purest form of "From each according to their ability, to each according to their need." That said, running an instance isn't free, so make sure to kick your instance a few bucks if you appreciate their work.

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[-] IDKWhatUsernametoPutHereLolol@lemmy.dbzer0.com 19 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

So um here's the thing.

The fediverse is a network of interconnected servers/instances that are independently hosted.

Within the fediverse, there's Lemmy

There are many different "servers" (I'm just gonna call it servers, instances is not a commonly used word) of Lemmy. Each have different owners. But they all run the Lemmy software of their servers.

The Lemmy software is an open source project, contributed by many different people who know how to code. The main developers believe in Marxism-Leninism, basically what countries like USSR and People's Republic of China claim to also follow this ideology (or at least they used to).

lemmy.ml is one of the first servers, run by the main developers.

So there, if you disagree with their ideology, you should probably use a different server.

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[-] Aria@lemmygrad.ml 16 points 1 month ago

Lemmy.ml is explicitly a Marxist Leninist instance of the Lemmy software. It's why it's called .ml. You can use a different instance if you aren't a Marxist Leninist. Lemmy.world is a Hitlerite instance.

Federation is censorship resistant, but each instance is still going to remove gross content for the sake of their users and instance culture. You can see removed content in the modlog, it's public for every instance running unmodified Lemmy.

As for why you need to copy/paste the sentence -- It sounds a lot like an anti-spam measure. Captchas and the like are extremely common, I'm surprised you find them novel. Are you asking this because you're planning a spam-attack and need to make sure the spam isn't removed? Your spam will be removed. While it's technically possible to go find, no one will care enough to do so.

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[-] scytale@lemm.ee 16 points 1 month ago

Join us at lemm.ee. It’s as neutral as can be, the admin is cool, and they leave blocking to the users instead of just defederating outright.

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[-] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 13 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

The .ml admins (and devs of Lemmy the software) are from that crowd, basically. If you don't like it, try another instance.

Edit: .ml is for Marxist-Leninist, even. There's no connection to Mali.

[-] WeirdGoesPro@lemmy.dbzer0.com 13 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

The original developers of Lemmy are communists who were seeking to create a social media space that would be free from corporate censorship and centralization. When they created ml, they decided to have it be geared towards communists and leftists as their specific flavor of the Lemmy community, because that is what interested them.

If you are looking for a less political and more general instance, I’d recommend:

lemmy.world
sh.itjust.works
lemmy.dbzero.com

[-] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 27 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

All 3 of those are highly political instances, though. Lemmy.world is overwhelmingly liberal and enforces that bias, and dbzer0 is mostly Anarchists. Sh.itjust.works genuinely leans towards fascism thanks to dedication to anticommunism and full support for the Military Industrial Complex and NATO.

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[-] NaevaTheRat@vegantheoryclub.org 24 points 1 month ago

lmfao dbzero terms of service is literally to follow the anarchist COC, hosts Lefty memes, and one of the largest anarchist communities.

World is peak neoliberal, has a stupid media bias bot calibrated for neoliberal positions as centrist, and is explicitly aligned with the USA in law and ethos.

Shitjustworks is similar to world but Canadian.

Life is political and people hosting online communities have ideologies. Shock horror I know. An ideology being invisible to you because you are raised in it does not make it any less explicit.

[-] davel@lemmy.ml 13 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

An ideology being invisible to you because you are raised in it does not make it any less explicit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_hegemony

And invisible ideology in the imperial core today is zombie neoliberalism.

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[-] emergencyfood@sh.itjust.works 12 points 1 month ago

I wonder if it will be somewhat better here.

If you host your own instance, you have complete control over what gets posted. If not, you have to follow your instance's rules.

one of the requirements being having to copy a sentence from the link provided which links to some article called "The Principles of Communism" which I thought was very odd for a site to do.

That's just basic bot detection, like a captcha. Karl Marx's works are out of copyright, and Lemmy's lead developer is a communist, hence the choice.

it's part of the sign-up process to almost pledge to some political or religious ideology.

In general, instances don't expect you to agree with their mods on politics or religion, but the content hosted on that instance would be somewhat biased towards the mods' tastes. So you go from lemmygrad (far-left) to lemmy.ml (centre-left) to lemm.ee (centrist) to shitjustworks (centre-right) to lemmy.world (right-wing). Personally I'd avoid the first and last, but it's up to each person to decide what's right for them.

[-] Revan343@lemmy.ca 12 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Is lemmy.world particularly right-wing? It seemed mostly shitty liberal from what I'd noticed, thought admittedly I don't actually pay much attention to people's instances

[-] Zagorath@aussie.zone 17 points 1 month ago

They referred to ML as "centre-left", so their perception is obviously very skewed.

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this post was submitted on 19 Nov 2024
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