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The Windows 11 problem (www.spacebar.news)

submitted 11 months ago by corbin@infosec.pub to c/technology@lemmy.world

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[-] qwertyqwertyqwerty@lemmy.world 134 points 11 months ago

Honestly, between the telemetry data collection, the strange hardware requirements, advertisements, bloatware, and unknown future licensing model, Linux is looking like an attractive option. At this point, I only use Windows for Office and gaming, and Linux + Proton has gotten really good lately. I don't see a reason to use Windows on my personal machine any more.

[-] OldQWERTYbastard@lemmy.world 95 points 11 months ago

We don't use the word "Spyware" like we did twenty years ago. It's baked into Windows now.

[-] sweetchildintime@lemmy.world 35 points 11 months ago

Linux is fine for people like you and me who are comfortable installing our own operating system, and trouble-shooting any problems. Most 'normal' people though will continue to walk into a store, buy a laptop, and use whatever came installed.

Of course, the year of Linux on the desktop actually happened some time ago without anyone noticing. It's called ChromeOS, and that's a whole different can of worms.

[-] SkyeStarfall@lemmy.blahaj.zone 28 points 11 months ago

While true, how much troubleshooting does windows require? Because as I sometimes use windows, it's not that much less work to get it to do what you want it to do, or solve issues, than linux.

Especially since it feels like windows tries to fight you every step of the way.

[-] pete_the_cat@lemmy.world 10 points 11 months ago

Most distributions require little to no troubleshooting, and if they do, someone has probably already posted the solution online. It's pretty rare these days that you run into a problem that someone else hasn't and you're stuck figuring it out yourself.

The only pain point is trying to find the Linux equivalent of the Windows apps that you commonly use. Web browsers are the exact same, but that's about it. A fair amount of apps to offer Linux counterparts though.

[-] echo64@lemmy.world 8 points 11 months ago

When windows needs fixing, people take it to the best buy genius bar or whatever

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[-] CeeBee@lemmy.world 7 points 11 months ago

While true, how much troubleshooting does windows require?

A surprising amount

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[-] pete_the_cat@lemmy.world 14 points 11 months ago

Once people get over the initial Windows indoctrination, Linux is simple to use and doesn't require tons of complex troubleshooting like people think. Before the COVID lockdown I tried for the Nth time to get my dad to use Linux. I had it installed and told him to stick with it for a few weeks (he only browses the web and plays solitaire). If he still didn't like it, I'd reenable Windows. Well that few weeks turned into 6 months. Now both he and my mom have been happy Linux users for about 2 years.

[-] itsraining@lemmy.world 6 points 11 months ago

If I may ask, how do you deal with updates? Have you enabled unattended upgrades or do you update the machines yourself?

[-] Zeth0s@lemmy.world 7 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

His dad just needs to put a password when asked. It's a 6-years-old kid task updating on most Linux distro.

[-] itsraining@lemmy.world 6 points 11 months ago

That would be true if:

A GUI software center is used (or if the said dad is comfortable with an interactive console application)
The said dad actually realizes the importance behind updates. From my experience, many people don't.

So, unless both of above are true, the dad will never (want to) update his system because "it works as is", sticking to old versions of software, never receiving bugfixes and neglecting security.

[-] Zeth0s@lemmy.world 7 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Most distro nowadays come with a gui to update. A pop up window appears asking if you want to update/upgrade. You can press "yes" and the password of the sudoer or admin user is asked. It has been like this for over a decade. For popular distros as Ubuntu or fedora over 15 years

Is it different for your distro?

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[-] pete_the_cat@lemmy.world 5 points 11 months ago

I do it for them whenever I come over every month or two (I live out of state). I could also just SSH in and do it remotely if I really wanted to. I showed my dad how to do it with the GUI package manager, but he's the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" type. Linux will run perfectly fine without updates for years.

[-] ChunkMcHorkle@lemmy.world 5 points 11 months ago

I'm not the guy you asked, and I hope he responds because I'd like to hear his answer too, but a lot of that depends on the Linux distro you select. On rolling releases you get continuous updates automatically, not major upgrades like forced Windows Updates.

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[-] ForgotAboutDre@lemmy.world 6 points 11 months ago

When people are talking about Linux Desktop they usually mean GNU/Linux. Chrome OS and Android both use the Linux kernel, but they aren't GNU/Linux like we understand Linux desktop.

GNU/Linux needs a company that will create a Macintosh equivalent. A company that will design quality hardware. Restrict the hardware they support tightly, but highly optimise the drivers in their devices. Selling their equipment with a distro that's well supported with bug testing and user support. Each update being tested on all their devices.

This would allow people to buy their devices without much thought.

I think people in the past thought this could be Ubuntu and Canonical. But their business is server, so there desktop will never get to the place it needs to be.

The steam deck is pushing Linux closer to this place. But I don't think it will be enough.

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[-] possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 14 points 11 months ago

Until you realize that many orgs have software that only works on windows.

Its not a great situation

[-] superduperenigma@lemmy.world 8 points 11 months ago

Storage is super cheap these days. Just buy an extra hard drive for Windows and boot into that on the rare occasion you truly need to use Windows. Or just use a VM.

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[-] hperrin@lemmy.world 5 points 11 months ago

I’ve worked as a SWE at Facebook, Google, and LinkedIn, and none of the devs I worked with used Windows. Everyone either used Mac or Linux. It’s just a matter of time before the dev world bleeds out into the consumer world.

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[-] corbin@infosec.pub 6 points 11 months ago

The subscription rumor was debunked pretty quickly. I honestly don't see that happening anytime soon, PC makers would get pretty upset (especially if they don't get a cut of the revenue).

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[-] a_fancy_kiwi@lemmy.world 74 points 11 months ago

I could probably tolerate Windows 11 if:

the start menu search didn’t search the web and just searched my system.
the widget panel wasn’t just a wrapper for their shitty news aggregator that seems to only gather celebrity news
If I have windows pro, I don’t want notifications to use Edge or see TikTok, Amazon, Candycrush, etc. in the start menu (I know they aren’t downloaded but what “pro” wants any of that shit)

[-] fuckwit_mcbumcrumble@lemmy.world 20 points 11 months ago

the start menu search didn’t search the web and just searched my system.

Windows 10 has the same problem, that one isn't unique to 11.

Widgets I don't think there's anything that can save that. 10% of the space is set aside for actual widgets, the rest is just their "news".

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[-] Neeen@sh.itjust.works 9 points 11 months ago

I used a regedit to fix the web search part of it. Starallback is what I use to fix the rest of it. After that, it's almost like I'm using Windows 10.

Changing audio output does still take an extra click compared to before, but I've just been dealing with that.

[-] thepianistfroggollum@lemmynsfw.com 5 points 11 months ago

There are debloating tools that do all of that for you in just a few clicks.

[-] sexual_tomato@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 11 months ago

But why is that even necessary

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[-] nabladabla@sopuli.xyz 30 points 11 months ago

They used to say that 10 would be the last version and they'd just update that

[-] Raxiel@lemmy.world 18 points 11 months ago

Apparently that was never the official line, and was just something a "dev evangelist" (marketer) said at some conference and it stuck

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[+] Sprite@lemmy.ml 30 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

[deleted]

[-] Neon@lemmy.world 11 points 11 months ago

generally would have agreed with you but since i got a new Monitor i have had nothing but Problems.

Granted i don't make it Easy for Linux by having 3 monitors at 4K:60Hz 1440p:144Hz 1080p:60Hz but still

all my Browsers always crash. I assume it has to do with Scaling since they like to especially crash when i move them between monitors. Then Gnome randomly crashes. It's a nightmare.

was forced to come back to Windows 11 because of all that Bullshit. I guess the upside is much better Security on Windows, but still. Although that added Security is pretty useless since every fucking Program needs administrator rights for some inconceivable reason.

[-] f4f4f4f4f4f4f4f4@lemmy.world 7 points 11 months ago

NVIDIA card?

[-] Neon@lemmy.world 11 points 11 months ago

Nvidia Card.

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[-] Romkslrqusz@lemm.ee 23 points 11 months ago

Windows 11 definitely has its issues, but I don’t think the author of this article has sufficient knowledge to be writing articles about it.

There’s not a great solution for switching to UEFI in an existing install

MBR2GPT is baked into Windows and works great as long as you don’t have a jacked up partition layout.

Windows 11 demands a Trusted Platform Module (TPM) 2.0 security coprocessor, which isn’t in many PCs that meet all the other requirements.

Part of the reason that Intel 8xxx and Ryzen 2xxx processors are the baseline “requirement” is that they have fTPM 2.0 embedded in the silicon. It’s actually in the overwhelming majority of devices that meet the other requirements.

There appears to be no loss in functionality when bypassing the installation requirements… so why do they exist?

Microsoft could provide a more limited Windows 11 experience to PCs that don’t meet the strict requirements

Microsoft doesn’t go out of their way to hide the fact that you can install Windows 11 on unsupported hardware.

By providing and sanctioning a “limited” experience, Microsoft would then have to dedicate resources to supporting that experience. I’ve worked with tons of legacy devices that had odd quirks that required workarounds in Windows 10, so I can’t really blame them for wanting to limit how they spend their support resources.

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[-] hperrin@lemmy.world 21 points 11 months ago

It’s easier than ever to switch to Linux, especially if the thing holding you back was gaming.

[-] Neon@lemmy.world 14 points 11 months ago

i actually switched back to Windows from Linux because it didn't work well with different resolutions and scaling and my Programs kept crashing.

[-] DudeDudenson 6 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Inb4 "it's your fault" comments

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[-] possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 20 points 11 months ago

I say we boycott windows 11

[-] itsraining@lemmy.world 16 points 11 months ago

I say we boycott Windows

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[-] Rai@lemmy.dbzer0.com 11 points 11 months ago

Already with ya! I’m never touching 11. I still use 10 for games, but debloated and telemetry disabled.

When I reformat I’m going Linux, with a small 10 partition for VR/games that run better on Windows.

[-] belathus@bookwormstory.social 6 points 11 months ago

Oh man, been doing that for 10 years!

[-] tunahanyilmaz@lemmy.world 14 points 11 months ago

I've stayed away from Windows 11 because of the bloatware and TPM requirements. Turns out, my old processor that was rejected by Microsoft actually had TPM 2.0, it just needed to be enabled from the BIOS. Well, I installed it a few days ago and everything look great. The bloatware was a problem but there are FOSS apps for that. The UI looks clean, the taskbar is uncluttered, and I feel stupid for not updating before. I don't know if I'm the minority here but I think that for most users Windows 11 is easier and more accessible.

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[-] kalanthil@lemmy.world 6 points 11 months ago

That's a really well written article.

Looks like I'll be going Linux. Better OS for casual use anyway.

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this post was submitted on 10 Oct 2023

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