cross-posted from: https://lemm.ee/post/50439521
cross-posted from: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/33851469
"because their lives don't matter as much as CEOs"
This is the defining moment. This is our future
It's because he crossed state lines?
That’s how they’re justifying the federal charges, because he went from one state to the next, and he used the internet.
What religion this mr. Mangione represented?
My personal tinfoil hat is that they are seeking the death penalty so he accepts a deal. They are scared of jury nullification.
That's normal though. I mean it shouldn't be, but they always go as hard as they can hoping you'll plead guilty to avoid a trial. When they say the death penalty is meant to dissuade criminals, they know it doesn't work on crimes. It works on getting guilty pleas.
That isn't tinfoil-hat at all. I was reading a news story recently about how worried they are that they'll have trouble finding impartial jurors, since there's so much sympathy for him.
How exactly does this work? How do they determine someone to be impartial? If they weed out people for having sympathy but keep people who don't, aren't they making that jury partial to finding him guilty?
That's the quiet part out loud. They want a jury that will convict him.
The jury is supposed to be unbiased, i.e. not favoring one side or the other. Obviously, it's impossible to get a jury that's completely impartial, especially in a case that's as high-profile as this one, but they have to try.
They ask the jurors questions and then each side has the opportunity to remove ones that they deem problematic.
The comparison is definitely stupid because this guy planned the whole thing! Its not like he accidentally started a rebellion in an accidentally treasonous way while trying to steal the office of a high government official. Everyone knows the punishment for that is ...another 4 years of government.
I might be confused by your comment and not understanding it properly so excuse me if I'm just not understanding right.
Are you saying that all the school shooters in America did not actively plan to kill all of those children and/or teenagers?
School shooters took a gun to a school and started open firing on children who were no threat and never even had a chance to grow up and hurt anyone.
This guy planned it out, killing one adult who was responsible for the deaths of a lot of fellow Americans while he got richer and richer from their suffering and deaths.
I believe the term you are looking for is a type of ruzzian chasm. A casm from the czar himself. Some would come to call it czarcasm but it wouldn't be until 1927 when a group of Mexican explorers traveling past the Rio grand to visit their cousins in California.... Nevermind the story, I was being sarcastic.
Good luck finding a jury to convict him of jaywalking.
Some homicides are self defence.
For that very reason... He will never see a jury. This will be decided by ONE judge...
Who has already written his poinion
6th amendment guarantees the right to a jury trial. The only way he doesn't see a jury is if he waives that right.
We're in a pretty nice bubble here on Lemmy and the fediverse. There's a LOT of bootlickers who happily want him convicted
Imagine thinking there should be consequences for assassins.
Vigilante justice only feels nice when you agree with the Vigilante. The curse of internet bubbles is that people feel like everyone agrees. Bubbles build extreme values and a lack of understanding of other peoples values.
You become right. Others become bootlickers.
A competing viewpoint is that our health insurance system is fine and that denying people coverage and either saddling them with debt or causing their deaths is also fine. Anyone who thinks that way hasn't had to deal with a claim getting rejected. But with AI reject bots becoming more common over time everyone will. Pain can teach empathy.
Most people are fine with a little institutionalized corruption but when essential services like healthcare stop functioning they're going to get very angry. It's not so much vigilante justice as it is an insurrection against bad governance.
Or... killing people is wrong, even shitty people.
Or actually lots and lots of reasons. In a nuanced world filled with billions of people, there are very different viewpoints.
We can frame violence in ways that justify or invalidate its righteousness.
It depends on how you define "wrong". But there are universal truths. If someone tries to kill or harm you it's considered just if you harm them in defense.
We dont know Luigi's legal defense yet but my guess is his attorney will argue self defense. If so the justice system now has to sort out whether this was self defense and in that sense it will likely be considered wrong.
opposing world views fighting
The state of New York is about to get a firsthand lesson in the Streisand Effect. They should have just charged him the same charge any normal killer would get - Second Degree Murder, which is the normal charge for premeditated murder in NY. First degree requires rare special circumstances, and the prosecutor chose to use a dubious "terrorism" modifier to up the charge to Murder 1. They just couldn't help themselves, and they shot themselves in the foot.
The advantage to the prosecution to a simple Murder 2 charge is that motive really doesn't matter much. They just have to prove that Luigi pulled the trigger. But with the terrorism modifier, the trial will no devolve into lengthy discussions about his motives and message. Not only have they now given him the world's largest soapbox, but this will also give the defense an opportunity to make him much more sympathetic to the jury. With only a Murder 2 charge, the defense lawyer would have had to fight hard to sneak subtle hints into trial about Luigi's motives. Now his motives will be a core part of the prosecution's case.
With a simple Murder 2 trial, even jurors who thought Thompson got what he deserved could vote to convict based simply on the letter of the law. Luigi killed an evil man, but he still has to face the consequences like any other criminal. Now the jury will clearly see that the system isn't treating him like any other criminal. The prosecutors, through their own actions, are making Luigi's case for him - the justice system is completely rigged in favor of the rich and powerful, and the only way they can ever be held accountable is through violence.
All it takes is one juror of twelve to look around at the situation and say, "this is bullshit. I'm not going to convict." Sure, they can try him again with a new jury if he's not found unanimously not-guilty, but that jury will have an even greater risk of jury nullification. The longer this goes on, the more likely the prosecutor just has to offer him some sweetheart plea deal just to get him convicted of something. And each trial just elevates Mangione that much closer to literal Sainthood in the popular imagination.
It's been mentioned before but NYC will be using special jury screening processes to make sure none of the jurors are "terrorist" sympathizers.
Yeah, first degree requires a deep look into the motives, which is really good for him.
Here's some legal analysis by legal eagle https://youtu.be/vXkH-G_8xew
I do believe it would be a tactical error on their part to give him the death penalty... make a real martyr
Yeah, killing him seems like the best way to get riots all over the country...
Hahaha yah right. If they kill him there we'll be massive bitching online and that's about it.
I had the same thought. Us North Americans are not used to sacrificing ourselves for the betterment of the future generations.
Because it's about sending a message. They've seen how popular this guy and his actions have become and are trying to throw everything at him so it puts off any copycats.
Except all they have done is make him a martyr, and now anyone who wants to be infamous is more likely to do something.
True, hopefully it will backfire.
Haven't seen any copycats yet.
Plans take time. Better wait a few weeks until the CEOs start to relax again
Death penalty increases violence because murdering the person catching you becomes a way to increase your likelihood of surviving.
They really gonna try to turn this guy into a martyr?
Adding "Mangione gets a shrine" to my 2025 bingo
Then we need to make him a saint.
St. Luigi of Baltimore, forgive us our debts, deliver us from the greed of the wicked...
Land of Double Standards.
Pulling an excerpt from George Carlin: "Politicians hide behind three things in this country: The Flag, The Bible and Children. No child left behind! It wasn't long ago you were talking about giving children a headstart. Headstart, Left Behind. Someone's losing fucking ground here."
This is a dumb take. Since 2005 you cannot use capital punishment for minors see https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roper_v._Simmons
Most school shooters are under 18, Luigi is 26.
Looking at this, the vast majority of them are adults: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States_by_death_toll
The far bigger reason is that most don't survive to be prosecuted.
US citizens, are you planning to protest?
We have the Russian "and then it got worse" do nothing attitude. We aren't even gonna try to do anything till its far too late.
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