Don't know about anyone else, but I'm very pleased to see Linus talking like this. I wish more of my relationships both professional and personal could operate with this level of straightforwardness.
Asahi Linux
Unofficial community for the Asahi Linux project
Have... Had you not heard any Linus rant before this? This is pretty tame.
Precisely my point.
If anyone spoke to me like that at work, I would quit. Which is exactly what has happened.
Really? I feel the opposite. I thought Linus was very clear in calling out this maintainer’s bs, and I’d think it’s fair if I’m in the receiving end. I did something unprofessional: essentially tried sabotaging others while hiding behind a lie, that I “don’t care” about something while actually hating it.
Getting called out is not the end of a work relationship. We’re all flawed, and we might not notice our own problems and think we’re doing fine, and such callouts are good for our own development, both as a person and professionally.
But if you’re thin-skinned and think you’re better than others and so you won’t take criticisms from others, welp, can’t help ya there. I’d suggest therapy though.
But if you’re thin-skinned and think you’re better than others
If being "thin-skinned" means not allowing people to disrespect you unnecessarily based on a misunderstanding, then sure.
Nobody in that thread quit because of the way Linus talked. If was because of the way they were talking to each other.
They quit because other people spoke to them that way under Linus' absent leadership.
Fair
If you were being an asshole, and someone called you out on it, and you quit over that, I can’t imagine you’d be missed.
You don't think anyone will miss one of the top Linux maintainers over the last 10 years? You don't think anyone will miss the founder and primary developer of the only Linux distribution intended to work on silicon Macs? You don't think anyone would miss the founder and primary maintainer of the Linux kernel?
Linus uses a MacBook Air.
You know Linus has gotten a ton of shit over the years for being a temperamental asshole, but at this point I kinda feel for him.
Starting in 2014, the dude has made a genuine attempt to be better. However the open source world is full of petty drama that makes it hard to keep your cool.
Why no link?
And no, I am not looking for yes-men, and I like it when you call me out on my bullshit. I say some stupid things at times, there needs to be people who just stand up to me and tell me I'm full of shit.
But now I'm calling you out on YOURS.
can someone fill me in with a tldr of what's going on lately? I know there's some contention in the Linux community about rust, I've seen it mentioned here and there, but what's the actual story with all this.
Not everyone wants Rust in the kernel. Some don't want it because mixing programming languages increases complexity, while other simply don't like Rust. Hellwig says he's the former.
As the DMA maintainer, he said he would block Rust for that reason. So the effort of upstreaming Rust for Linux stalled. There was uproar in the Rust community, and notably, Asahi Linux leader Hector Martin stepped in, complained about the maintainer on social media, calling for him to be removed.
Linus did not like Hector Martin doing this, so he yelled at him on the mailing list. Hector Martin decided to step down from upstreaming work to the kernel because of this. And later he stepped away from Asahi Linux as a whole for various other reasons.
Now Linus is making it clear that he will merge Rust for Linux work whether other Linux maintainers like it or not.
Thanks for the thorough explanation!
I'm ambivalent about Rust, I see it mentioned a lot but I've never really dug into it to see why it's so lauded. Is there any particular reason why the pro-rust community don't simply fork the Linux kernel to have a "Rust-Nix" ?
Forking is not an easy thing to do. It's difficult to keep up with the pace of upstream with a project as large as Linux. When Linux makes a breaking change, then the downstream kernel will need to fix things.
Forks do exist. Asahi Linux ships a fork that includes lots of Rust stuff that hasn't been upstreamed. It would be a significantly worse experience if you didn't run their kernel fork, if it would even run at all. Notably, Google also uses Rust in the Android kernel. They sponsor the Rust for Linux project.
And in truth, most forks do not matter. Hard forking would certainly allow them to get Rust stuff in faster, but how much does that matter if no one is using the fork and the fork slowly becomes more and more incompatible with upstream Linux?
At some point, projects just become too big to fork. But it's still talked about as the be all, end all of dealing with open source disputes. Rather than people actually just having reasonable and meaningful discussions.
It would be a bummer if there was a second Linux project that diverged. We all profit from safer implementations, it's much better to keep them upstream.