this post was submitted on 21 Feb 2025
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[–] Kyrgizion@lemmy.world 139 points 3 weeks ago (4 children)

How exactly will they force compliance for companies not based in Italy, or even the EU?

[–] DavidGA@lemmy.world 73 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)

By banning and blocking all VPN providers not based in Italy.

[–] EngineerGaming@feddit.nl 45 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

I am experiencing such banning of providers right now. It is a whack-a-mole, seems futile. Not to mention that most people use sketchy free noname VPNs that are just too numerous. Or apparently some people set up basic XRay/VLESS/whatever and sell it via a Telegram bot...

[–] Admax@lemmy.world 31 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (3 children)

Not mentionning that anyone can set up their own VPN server… Good fucking luck with that 💀

[–] EngineerGaming@feddit.nl 14 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

You can ban big hosting providers, but even here they're cautious with measures like that because it would break WAY too much. Not to mention that you could just use a lesser-known one, even if it doesn't operate in the country legally.

[–] neon_nova@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 3 weeks ago

I’d like to see them ban Microsoft azure, aws, or whatever Google calls it. Not to mention the numerous smaller providers.

Italians will just pay with crypto to get around payment bans.

[–] Petter1@lemm.ee 6 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

I bet there comes the day that I need to share access to my server to allow people from other countries accessing the real free web through me…

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[–] Womble@lemmy.world 5 points 3 weeks ago

So by going harder on blocking content that China? Because that's what they do but most of the big providers get through after a day or two of downtime each time the government make a change to block them.

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[–] orize@lemmy.dbzer0.com 42 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

Supreme fascist control doesn't start immediately. It needs to take one small baby step every day.

[–] jaybone@lemmy.world 14 points 3 weeks ago

Better yet, how will they determine what is “pirated content”?

[–] sparky@lemmy.federate.cc 11 points 3 weeks ago

Making something illegal and actually stopping it are two different things. Also see: drugs.

[–] CosmicTurtle0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 70 points 3 weeks ago

"The Internet sees censorship as damage and routes around it."

[–] notannpc@lemmy.world 64 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

They will, at best, mildly inconvenienced the pirates.

[–] Xanza@lemm.ee 26 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

I've been pirating a long time. Not once have I been inconvenienced by any anti-Piracy measure. There's always another way around.

[–] BeardedGingerWonder@feddit.uk 9 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Having to find a way around is an inconvenience.

[–] Xanza@lemm.ee 7 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

lol not really. Not a single piracy measure I've ever come across was anything more than a 3-5 minute Google fix away.

[–] throwback3090@lemmy.nz 5 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)

Yep

It's like when YouTube finds a way to show you an ad, and then you go to ublock and update filters and boom fixed.

Oh no Italy is requiring something unenforceable, hopefully nobody from other countries ignores this and provides VPN access unhindered.

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[–] hossein@lemmy.sdf.org 63 points 3 weeks ago (8 children)

Never heard of forcing VPN providers to block something. Kinda defeats the purpose. Long live Tor I guess?

[–] Duke_Nukem_1990@feddit.org 58 points 3 weeks ago

It's a fascist government, they don't care about reality, just looks.

[–] Hubi@feddit.org 9 points 3 weeks ago

France has been attempting the exact same thing recently.

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[–] DancingBear@midwest.social 46 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (4 children)

Can’t you just vpn to another vpn ?

I’m not an expert on internet security but I do know there is no way in hell to legislate around blocking internet. Even China’s great firewall isn’t working.

I guess by passing legislation like this you get most people to be compliant, but this is about pirates, who were already actively non compliant in the first place.

The folks who pirate the content are literally going to have to click one extra button or something like that to work around the vpns trying to block stuff…

[–] Xanza@lemm.ee 39 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Can’t you just vpn to another vpn ?

Won't even have to. Just use any VPN provider outside of Italy that doesn't have to comply with Italian law. lol.

[–] AnAmericanPotato@programming.dev 11 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

I'm sure there will be workarounds.

I think there are plenty of people who would be pirates if it were more convenient, but I suspect the point of diminishing returns for legislation has already been passed. If you're savvy and dedicated enough to use a VPN in the first place, then this probably won't stop you. Non-tech-savvy people are already turned off of torrents for half a dozen different reasons.

DNS, though? That will block a lot of people from accessing things like Z-library, which is currently easy enough to access for anyone who knows how to use Google.

China's measures have been largely successful, unfortunately. It's still possible to VPN out, but it's a risk a lot of people are unwilling to take since it could realistically get them in trouble. I've lost contact with some friends in China because we have no shared platforms and the increasing blocking measures over the past 10 years finally passed their tolerance threshold.

I guess I could figure out how to use iMessage, which AFAIK is the only end-to-end encrypted messaging service that still works (or at least the only moderately popular one). Makes me wonder how secure it really is if China hasn't banned it...

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[–] Evotech@lemmy.world 6 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)
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[–] PresidentCamacho@lemm.ee 6 points 3 weeks ago

Take this with a grain of salt, I am by no means qualified to say anything on this topic with total certainty.

All a VPN does is encrypt traffic between you and the VPN. The VPN Hub you're connected to has to unencrypted your outbound traffic, fulfilling those requests, and then encrypting inbound traffic back to you. A VPN obscures traffic by allowing you to make your requests from a different location, where thousands of others also do it, all while hiding who is making any requests it fulfills, and hiding your activity from your ISP with encryption. A good VPN will also not keep logs of anything it does, and will have options to connect to Hubs outside of five eyes countries.

This would mean that while the VPN might not know who is making what requests, they would know what those requests are, so they could blacklist illegal content. All this to say a VPN >VPN >VPN > VPN still has a final VPN that has to make the request, and they will know where the request is going and what its for. But unless that final VPN company or Hub is actually inside of Italy they have no jurisdiction.

The real problem with this method is A) who determines what is blacklisted B) How do you enforce this blacklist C) How do you make the blacklist grow as fast as pirates spread out. This is a stupid law that wouldn't do anything even if the entire world got on board.

[–] phoenixz@lemmy.ca 41 points 3 weeks ago

So Italy is going to block all VPNs, then?

[–] cyrano@lemmy.dbzer0.com 26 points 3 weeks ago
[–] Evil_Shrubbery@lemm.ee 22 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

Why tf are countries with a suffering middle and lower classes targeting them especially?

To squeeze one more monthly subscription out of them?
To just make then skip the culture they can't afford?

[–] ThePyroPython@lemmy.world 9 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Because they don't fight back unlike the billionaires who threaten to take jobs away / donate to their political rivals, the criminals who blackmail or threaten bodily harm (since this is Italy we're taking about), and the individuals who fall into both categories.

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[–] twinnie@feddit.uk 22 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Won’t happen. Enforcing this would cost way too much.

[–] Akasazh@feddit.nl 15 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

They will use it to jail anyone caught using the internet illegally. Most likely people that are ideologically opposed to them.

[–] sudneo@lemm.ee 5 points 3 weeks ago

It's Italy, there is no chance of that efficiency. This is - as usual - stuff done to prevent pirated sport content. Nothing else has ever and probably will ever be done.

[–] Geometrinen_Gepardi@sopuli.xyz 21 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

With these kind of news from Southern Europe it's always about pirate football streams. How much does it cost to watch football legally in Italy?

[–] Giooschi@lemmy.world 19 points 3 weeks ago (7 children)

The only options you have are:

  • Dazn Standard (45€/month, 35€/month if you pay for 12 months) to get access to all the SerieA matches (and a whole bunch of other sports nobody cares about)

  • Dazn Goal Pass (20€/month, 14€/month if you pay for 12 months) to get access to 3 SerieA matches per week which you don't get to choose (and a bunch of other sports nobody cares about)

  • Sky (16€/month for the first 18 months, then whatever Sky wants after that) to get access to 3 SerieA matches per week which you don't get to choose (and a bunch of other stuff nobody cares about)

Most people care only about some specific matches, so your only option is Dazn.

Dazn is also a very crappy service, it often has connectivity problems and also has ads. Fun fact, if you get a connection issue while watching a Dazn ad, it will restart.

So, as usual, monopoly, high costs and crappy services drive piracy.

[–] Damage@feddit.it 16 points 3 weeks ago

Important note: wages in Italy are VERY low. 45€/month is a significant expense.

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[–] balder1991@lemmy.world 21 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

“Italian organized crime groups receipts have been estimated to reach 7–9% of Italy's GDP.”

But I guess pirating books is a more pressing problem.

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[–] lepinkainen@lemmy.world 19 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)

So will the Italian government provide an Official List of Pirated Content or do the VPN providers need to determine it manually?

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[–] biggerbogboy@sh.itjust.works 16 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Australia already has this, but it is extremely easy to circumvent, just use a different VPN.

[–] InvisibleShoe@lemmy.world 12 points 3 weeks ago

Don't even have to go that far, just change your DNS to a non-Australian one. Anything that turns up from a "top 10 dns providers" search works.

[–] pastermil@sh.itjust.works 14 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Heh... Good luck forcing VPN to do anything!

[–] bobs_monkey@lemm.ee 16 points 3 weeks ago

Has no log VPN

"We have no record of anything, oh well."

[–] rickdg@lemmy.world 10 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

This is actually about having the power of one person in an office wiping out any internet domain from the country.

[–] ProdigalFrog@slrpnk.net 8 points 3 weeks ago

Hm, isn't Airvpn based in Italy?

[–] Ledericas@lemm.ee 8 points 3 weeks ago

there is proxies, which arnt vpn they will just switch to those.

[–] cupcakezealot@lemmy.blahaj.zone 7 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Are there even any decent VPN providers operating in Italy? What is the point of this?

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