"we looked at the prices between the two lowest-priced cars on ten different websites. Here's a whole article about doing that."
this post was submitted on 12 Mar 2025
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Tesla has more features than BYD BUT you have to pay extra to activate them. So buying a Tesla means you pay for features you can't use without additional payment.
With BYD, you get all the features available when you buy the car.
Seems like an obvious reason to buy BYD even if Musky didn't go Nazi.
All features working right out of the box is a very advanced technology, leap years ahead of tesla swaticar.
So buying a Tesla means you pay for features you can't use without additional payment.
Most cars have this these days, unfortunately. At least you can purchase Tesla's with a one-time payment where everyone else offers only subscriptions.
Still loses to a car that doesn't have pay-to-play.
Good, fuck Leon
Germany and France are car makers, so:
The charges come on top of the existing 10% levy on cars imported into the EU, meaning Chinese-made EVs face total tariffs of up to 48%.
also, strangely:
Tesla has filed a complaint against the European Commission after the imposition of tariffs by the bloc on its Chinese-made electric vehicles.
Yes they were afraid of reciprocal tariffs from china, but also many Tesla’s sold in Europe are actually made in Shanghai, the Berlin factory only makes high end model Y’s.
All of the German car makers were actually opposed to the import taxes on Chinese EVs, as was Germany as a whole. But it got passed on the EU level anyway.
i'm guessing that your sources would all be in German?
I remember reading about it in german media, but you can easily check the votes in the EU gparliament, as they are public. Specifically there's a nice list of how they voted on that particular issue here (english/reuters). Germany voted "against".
Like @barsoap@lemm.ee wrote, the (german) articles mentions fears of "retribution" taxes by the chinese. And when these tarifs were announced/planned, china did immediately say they'd react accordingly (so it's no an unfounded fear). Another earlier article also mentions "expert opinions" that question benefit for the german car makers due to their large export volume to china (and at least some of them having plants in china making their vehicles, too).
Now a very recent article from last week notes that the profit of VW-Group has dropped around 31% over last year, and a large part of that is coming from lower sales (and more competition) in China, as well as general restructuring costs. But I have absolutely no idea if the "reverse tariffs" are actually already in place by China, or just planned, or if they reverted their stance. It might also be that they just made independently bad decisions and this is just a consequence of that...
Edit: corrected some nonsense, oops.
I have no idea but this article includes a section. German manufacturers feared a tariff war and aren't as exposed to Chinese competition in the first place as unlike e.g. the French German companies aren't competing as much on the low-budget market.
Difference is that France actually has good EVs
Never thought I’d root against an American company but here we are…
That's the way it's been for decades, if the US is doing something, there's any other country doing it better
I'm a fan of BYDs though, I just wish they were cheaper in the UK. Britain is not subject to the EU import tarrifs but the Atto 3 for example is around almost twice the price of the same Australian model.
I understand we're further away from China than Australia is but then they do have their own ships now. Anyone know why?
Its not just a matter of shipping. You need dealerships and licensing and the like. England is notorious for its long line of middlemen who make everything more expensive. So no surprise BYD can't get a competitive vehicle into a state that hates foreign competition and loves rent-seeking at every turn.
In Aus the Atto 3 Essential, before on-road costs, is $40k AUD. Is it a lot higher in the UK?
Yep - cheapest Atto 3 model in the UK is £37,695 on the road price, which is around $77,587 AUD. Even with dealer cuts (30%?) seems super expensive compared to rest of the world. Something is not adding up.
That's insane. I have one on order in Aus and test driving it was great. Apparently it's even cheaper in China so no idea how you're getting screwed over here. I would definitely look at other options at that price.
The BYD taxis in China are making me want an electric car more so, but I can't financially justify letting go of a working ICE car.
Same situation. My vehicles close to 20 years old each with zero issues. But when one goes i def want a BYD
Seagull is a good car, but it is ultra small.. The major achievement is a $300/kwh price for just the battery in China. Would be easy to pay for car just from V2G or V2H+solar value. Ultra small also means the highest efficiency, and range charged per hour.
There are a lot of cars that are model 3 "sized"/comparable. BYD seal is $30k in China ($2000 less), and more expensive than Tesla in Germany. It might be a better car to boot, but its not helpful comparing Tesla to Seagull prices.
BYD Seal looks good. I would buy one if I had the choice!
This says nothing about how they undercut Tesla (and every other non-Chinese automaker) but I'll tell you:
- slave labor
- massive government subsidies
Tesla too has
- massive government subsidies
Not nearly as massive
Source on slave labor at BYD?
BYD construction site in Brazil shut over ‘slavery-like’ conditions : https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/dec/24/byd-car-factory-construction-site-brazil-shut-chinese-nationals
... from Brazilian subcontractor.
No, it was a Chinese subcontractor using Chinese labor.
There were accusations and reports for their factory in Brazil (source: BBC, as well as many others at the same time). I personally didn't look much further into it and haven't tried following the story since, but I would research if I was looking to buy a car.
Edit: Note I'm also not the op of the comment.
Xinxiang propaganda is a politicized process that involves shit talking 100% against China more than truth about any current oppression.
BYD, like most Chinese EVs are manufactured with extensive robotics. They are not manufactured in Xinxiang. Xinxiang mining activity is mostly for solar panel inputs. Not EVs.
There was a construction company BYD contracted out of China to bring Chinese workers to construct a factory in Brazil. It was shut down by Brazilian labor authorities for “slavery like” conditions and treatment if the Chinese workers.
That seems to be source for that claim.
They have opinions, never sources
The poster above you provided a link.BYD contracted a Chinese construction firm to build a factory in Brazil that the Brazilian labor authorities shuttered over the slave like working conditions.
BYD is Chinese. Very common there.