Victims of Communism : socialism

[–] Noel_Skum@sh.itjust.works 27 points 1 day ago (2 children)

And for those who would like a little background detail:

[–] PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmy.ml 7 points 21 hours ago (2 children)

If that was about any officially "bad country" western media would immediately cry genocide. Hell they are crying genocide about China where the minorities population is increasing.

[–] stink@lemmygrad.ml 3 points 21 hours ago (1 children)

I know what you are trying to say, and there is no genocide on Xinjiang, but I wouldn't frame it that way my friend. Zionists use that same logic of population rising against Palestinians.

[–] PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmy.ml 6 points 16 hours ago* (last edited 16 hours ago)

I know what you are trying to say too, but if we abandon every argument just because it is emptily used by this or that nazis, while remaining true in the specific context it was used by others, it would be undialectical and unmaterialist.

[–] Noel_Skum@sh.itjust.works 2 points 19 hours ago

I’d imagine the number of Portuguese in Macao and the number of British in Hong Kong would show similar movements to Russians in Latvia - but I wouldn’t immediately call it genocide; but then I’m no expert.

[–] jerkface@lemmy.ca -2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

gasp you mean this was slanted towards a particular conclusion interrobang

[–] Noel_Skum@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Well, I suppose that is one possible conclusion… but I’m not one to rush to judgement.

I just thought people might like to see a similar graph - but with more pretty colours on it.

[–] jerkface@lemmy.ca 0 points 22 hours ago (1 children)

forgive me

[–] Noel_Skum@sh.itjust.works 2 points 19 hours ago

Ok, just this once…

[–] jerkface@lemmy.ca 14 points 1 day ago

This factoid removed from context means nothing to me, good or bad.

[–] Val@lemmy.blahaj.zone 6 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Feelings meet Facts.

[–] eldavi@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 day ago

i bet feelings trump everything

[–] jerkface@lemmy.ca -2 points 1 day ago

Shit like this harms your ostensible (heavy emphasis on ostensible) goals.

[–] Mangoholic@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Population has declined in general, especially in richer countries. This stat alone is not conclusive or a solid argument. There are better stats that proof ussr communism wasn't bad for the people compared to capitalism.

[–] Muffi@programming.dev 6 points 1 day ago

The rate of growth has declined, but very few richer countries have had a decline in absolute population numbers.

https://www.populationpyramid.net/

[–] blade_barrier@lemmy.ml -3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

How about some earlier yesrs prior to USSR occupation?

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 10 points 1 day ago

why don't you find what life was like in Latvia before it joined USSR

[+] Oni_eyes@sh.itjust.works -7 points 1 day ago (2 children)

How does emigration/immigration look during those periods? Remember how the USSR moved populations around to wipe out ethnic locals? Ukraine and Pepperidge Farms remember.

[–] TheOubliette@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Kill the Redditor in your brain. It gives people second hand embarrassment.

I recommend that you simply state your position. I'm sure you think your point is obvious, but it really is not.

[–] Oni_eyes@sh.itjust.works 0 points 1 day ago (1 children)

My point was to ask for additional specific data that concerns population size/dynamics. Then I brought up a historical USSR/Russian empire move where they killed an ethnic minority population in a region and moved in "ethnic russians" to replace them for better comrade-ing.

[–] TheOubliette@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 day ago (3 children)

My point was to ask for additional specific data that concerns population size/dynamics. Then I brought up a historical USSR/Russian empir

That's not a poinyt. It is a question. But it seems like you wanted to use the question to make a point. Something negative.

But I'm not going to try and pull teeth to get you to be straightforward.

Then I brought up a historical USSR/Russian empire move where they killed an ethnic minority population in a region and moved in "ethnic russians" to replace them for better comrade-ing.

You also framed this as a question, actually. And you didn't say anything about killing. You are also being vague.

So clearly you do have something to say. But something is keeping you from just plainly stating your point. I think it's the snarky Redditor in your brain that has made you forget how to communicate with other people.

[–] Oni_eyes@sh.itjust.works -4 points 22 hours ago (1 children)

I clearly had "moved populations around to wipe out ethnic locals" in my first post. I'm sorry if you can't understand that to mean that USSR was doing a genocide (killing) a lot of the enthic minorities and replacing them with their main ethnic group. It's one reason why Russia today keeps saying that countries adjacent to them (who were former USSR like Ukraine) are ethnically Russians and belong as part of the Russian state.

Kindly pick up some reading comprehension.

[–] TheOubliette@lemmy.ml 2 points 19 hours ago (1 children)

I clearly had "moved populations around to wipe out ethnic locals" in my first post.

Forced migration is not the same as killing. Are you trying to say it is? Was that what everyone was supposed to automatically understand as part of your still instated point?

I'm sorry if you can't understand that to mean that USSR was doing a genocide (killing) a lot of the enthic minorities and replacing them with their main ethnic group.

So is that your point? You see a graph of Estonian population decline starting around the fall of the USSR and say it has something to do with the USSR killing ethnic minorities and replacing them? First, that was opaque. Second, tell me those that happened around 1990, O Great Sleuth.

It's one reason why Russia today keeps saying that countries adjacent to them (who were former USSR like Ukraine) are ethnically Russians and belong as part of the Russian state.

It actually is not. And the USSR itself was pivotal in the creation of the Ukrainian identity and republic, per Lenin's advocacy for semi-autonomous member states for, get this, ethnic minorities. Eastern Ukraine has had ethnic Russians (previously termed things like Muscovites or Cissacks depending on how uou wsnt to split hairs) for hundreds of years, primarily moving there after proto-Russia pushed out Nogais. In terms of displacing ethnic Ukrainians, this primarily occurred by anticommunist Poland during the civil war following the October Revolution where surrounding powers invaded the former Russian Empire. Poland took large regions to their East and South and forced Ukrainians out of acquired lands. This contributed to Ukrainian nationalist revanchism that ended up rhetorically fueling Banderites, who killed masses of ethnic Poles when given the chance - which was ended by the Soviets. Incidentally, modern Estonia supports modern Banderites.

So tell me more about your theory of what happened around 1990.

Kindly pick up some reading comprehension.

Oh I have no trouble with this. You just speak like a Redditor, expecting people to fill in your vague emotional content with their own context. Please do some self-criticism in this regard. Note that we are 3 comments in and you have yet to clearly make a point about what this has to do with OP's graph.

[–] Oni_eyes@sh.itjust.works 1 points 10 hours ago (1 children)

I notice you're not going after OP for his vague title with picture, but I'm fair game.

To make it abundantly clear (which you can infer from the other chart posted in the thread), the population change was mostly non-Latvians entering before the USSR splintered and leaving afterwards. I made a reference to habits in that region of wiping out locals and replacing them with ethnic "russians" to rebut the vague sarcastic "the decline was after the USSR splintered so communism=good" title.

Was that clear enough?

[–] TheOubliette@lemmy.ml 1 points 6 hours ago

I notice you're not going after OP for his vague title with picture, but I'm fair game.

OP is just noting that "under communism" the population was increasing and aftetwards it was decreasing. And making a joke about some anticommunist orgs. Easy to understand for the intended audience. Happy to explain more if you don't understand.

To make it abundantly clear (which you can infer from the other chart posted in the thread), the population change was mostly non-Latvians entering before the USSR splintered and leaving afterwards.

Yes someone posted a graph from Wikipedia. It refers to ethnicity. And it does not discriminate between entering, leaving, or having children / dying, though a lot is likely migration.

This was your point? It seems like a pointless fact.

I made a reference to habits in that region of wiping out locals and replacing them with ethnic "russians" to rebut the vague sarcastic "the decline was after the USSR splintered so communism=good" title.

Oh? Is that what the graphs are showing? Tell me about the ethnic cleansing of Latvians from 1970-1990.

Or were you saying something that has nothing to do with either graphic? Are you confused about timelines or are you confused about events? It's one or the other.

Was that clear enough?

Well I still don't see any coherent point so I'm going to go with no. You also ignored everything I said in my reply. So I think you should consider working on your communication skills.

[–] blade_barrier@lemmy.ml -3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

But I’m not going to try and pull teeth to get you to be straightforward.

Yeah, you're just going to write walls of text about it. Since you don't have physical access to the guy.

[–] TheOubliette@lemmy.ml 2 points 20 hours ago (1 children)

You think my replies were walls of text?

Have you ever read... one page of one book?

[–] jerkface@lemmy.ca 2 points 10 hours ago

On Lemmy? No. Not one.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 day ago

It's always nice to see that we have dedicated court jesters on Lemmy to provide some levity.

Socialism