this post was submitted on 24 Mar 2025
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    [–] Apocalypteroid@lemmy.world 44 points 6 days ago (4 children)

    I have no idea what this mean is even trying to say, but as someone who is trying to make the switch to Linux, it is a steep learning curve, even for the most "user-friendly" distros.

    A lot of the information in forums assumes some sort of basic knowledge of code and processes which aren't readily available. I've asked a few noob questions and while there are some helpful people out there, there are also a fuck load of assholes who seem to think they walked out the womb speaking Ubuntu.

    So my message to those people is, if you're not gonna be helpful, kindly keep your snide comments to yourself.

    [–] lordgoose@lemmy.dbzer0.com 11 points 6 days ago

    Yeah, I can confirm this. I've been using Linux for around two years at this point and having a Linux-using friend made the transition at the start way easier. Now I'm the Linux-using friend for all of my Linux-curious friends and it's great.

    [–] BuboScandiacus@mander.xyz 9 points 6 days ago (1 children)

    If gou have an issue shoot me a message, I can't guarantee anything but i'll try to help

    [–] Clinicallydepressedpoochie@lemmy.world 10 points 6 days ago (1 children)

    Shoot me a message too. I don't know anything about Linux but I'm lonely.

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    [–] Nalivai@lemmy.world 8 points 6 days ago (2 children)

    If you're getting coding advice, you might be on the wrong forums, which can explain the snark.
    You don't need to do code to use Linux. You can use Bash if you want, but it's not a necessity

    [–] Natanox@discuss.tchncs.de 11 points 6 days ago (3 children)

    Too many people expect you to know and understand gnu-utils and all the common config file, filesystem and folder structure paradigms though. Which is the problem.

    [–] Johanno@feddit.org 15 points 6 days ago

    The problem is that Linux nerds, myself included, are too deep in the knowledge to even think of sth. You might not know. And my way to learn the basics of Linux was breaking 3 installations and running random scripts from stack overflow without really knowing what they do.

    I don't want this the way for new people to learn Linux. There must be a better way. But I don't know which one. People who think you can't ask questions because your basics are missing should shut the fuck up and go to 4chan or so.

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    [–] narr1@lemmy.ml 14 points 6 days ago (2 children)

    "Anyway, here are terminal commands you don't understand." and after asking for clarification on said terminal commands, you are quite rudely told to read The Manual - which seems to be some kind of a holy book for these bizarre creatures - without explaining in any way whatsoever which part of which manual you should be "reading". Thankfully, only every command ever created by anyone since the very conception of these systems - which was some 50 years ago in the seventies, in a university of a country you don't live in, written in a language you don't possibly even understand all that well, possibly by someone who also didn't know the language all that well - is discussed at length and in an impenetrably obtuse manner by many different parts of many different manuals, with helpful references to other commands and concepts you also don't understand, but which are all varying levels of essential knowledge for understanding some of these commands, while different levels for others. Also if you do not grasp the essential knowledge, you might completely fuck up your system. It seems that the philosophy in playing Dwarf Fortress is found in trying to use certain types of Linux distros, mostly frequented by massive nerds with hugely inflated egos: losing is fun! Because why else would I still be using Arch (btw)? But in any case: Read the Fucking Manual (rtfm to you as well, brother)

    [–] Ricaz@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 6 days ago (2 children)

    My ego isn't that big..

    I chose Arch (in 2011) because

    1. Terminals make me look like hackerman
    2. I wanted to nerd out and learn the Linux ecosystem
    3. My engineer friends were Arch evangelists

    I do catch myself saying "just read the manual", but not in a hostile way I think. When you're already in a terminal, once you get used to manuals, it's very accessible and it's quick to get what you need.

    However, that usually requires you to know what you're looking for quite specifically, and that is something you can only learn through experience and study.

    I'm very happy with my choice and the whole "you can easily fuck up your system" thing also works in reverse - you can just as easily fix your system. I've made a few mistakes over the years but nothing that I couldn't reverse. Just make sure you're not fiddling with partitions and boot loaders during work hours..

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    [–] areyouevenreal@lemm.ee 6 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (2 children)

    There is a manual pre-installed on your machine for most commands available. You just type man and the name of the thing you want the manual for. Many commands also have a --help option that will give you a list of basic options.

    I should point out this isn't Linux specific either. Many of these commands come from Unix or from other systems entirely. macOS has a similar command line system actually. It's more that Linux users tend to use and recommend the command line more. Normally because it's the way of doing things that works across the largest number of distributions and setups, but also because lots of technical users prefer command line anyway. Hence why people complain about Windows command lines being annoying. I say command lines because they actually have two of them for some odd reason. Anyway I hope this helped explain why things are the way they are.

    I've been using linux for ~17 years or so and I just realized the other day that there can be multiple "pages" in a manual

    No, I don't want to talk about it

    [–] narr1@lemmy.ml 3 points 6 days ago

    Indeed, well explained. Though I think I should mention that I've been using Linux in general for some 12-13 years, since from somewhere around Ubuntu 12.04 to 13.10. I did make the error of overestimating my own skills and abilities regarding "figuring it out" when I dove headfirst into Arch, so basically I was a self-proclaimed massive nerd, but I didn't even realize how inflated my own ego was. I don't think the archinstall script/library even existed back then, and I also had no clue about the man-pages, or how anything really worked.

    So my comment here was more along the lines of embellished musings on my own past experiences trying to learn things while I was doing them. Through these experiences what I have learned though is that the Arch Wiki is an invaluable source for most Linux users.

    [–] b4r_c0d3@lemm.ee 9 points 6 days ago (2 children)

    I run into the issue that after using Linux for so long, I forget that the basics of using the system aren’t just common knowledge. Telling someone to cat a file sounds like gibberish to most people and that’s easy to forget.

    There are also a lot of people out there who want to be hand held through every little thing which is the worst way to learn anything. A calm sea never made a skilled sailor, some stuff you gotta just figure out on your own.

    [–] gwilikers@lemmy.ml 1 points 4 days ago

    Ngl, I forgtet command options all the time. Its usually just a case of looking at the man to refresh my memory.

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    [–] spicehoarder@lemm.ee 14 points 6 days ago

    GUIs are just terminal wrappers. Idk what to tell you, man

    [–] Rooty@lemmy.world 14 points 6 days ago (3 children)

    Copypasting a term command vs. 20 pages of "click here, now click there". Which is more efficient?

    [–] Natanox@discuss.tchncs.de 18 points 6 days ago (9 children)

    The one enabling people to understand and use their devices on their own. Once you can use a mouse or touchpad, you can navigate the UI. Good UI/UX conveys function. Checkboxes insert the correct configuration in the background without possibly hazardous typos.

    The CLI does nothing of this for the user, to understand it users have to invest tens, if not hundreds of hours before they get a hang of all essential commands, paradigms and tools to help themselves. They have to become IT intermediates just to use their computers.

    By providing a single CLI command (which, in the worst case, gets copied by a third user on an incompatible system configuration breaking everything) instead of pointing at the GUI tools most user-friendly distros already provide you do, in many cases, a disservice to the average user who just wants their problem to be fixed. They will not be able to help themselves next time for a similar issue.

    [–] tauren@lemm.ee 2 points 5 days ago

    The one enabling people to understand and use their devices on their own.

    CLI it is.

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    [–] 8osm3rka@lemmy.world 9 points 6 days ago

    Why does it have to be one or the other?

    I, as someone who spends so much time in the terminal that I literally have a dedicated key to open it, would prefer a single CLI command. My grandma, who thinks the monitor is the entire computer, would do better with the "inefficient" GUI option

    There can be more than one correct way to do something

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    [–] secret300@lemmy.sdf.org 5 points 5 days ago (3 children)

    Gnome and KDE, what's the 3rd logo

    [–] jrgn@lemmy.world 5 points 5 days ago

    Cinnamon (Mint's DE) I think

    Yea I'm wondering that too

    [–] Natanox@discuss.tchncs.de 3 points 5 days ago (1 children)

    Cinnamon, most commonly known from Mint. There are also Fedora and Ubuntu spins for it.

    [–] secret300@lemmy.sdf.org 3 points 5 days ago

    Been using Linux for 10 years and this is the first time I've seen the cinnamon logo lol

    [–] Cyniez@lemmy.world 8 points 6 days ago (2 children)

    Here is some :- :(){ :|:& };: Please don't try this at home.

    [–] gnawmon@lemm.ee 11 points 6 days ago (1 children)

    I suppose I can try this at root.

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    [–] Obnomus@lemmy.ml 4 points 6 days ago (1 children)

    I saw this other day and this happened with me too. I was having issues with brave and someone really asked why do u need brave

    [–] Petter1@lemm.ee 5 points 6 days ago (4 children)

    Brave aka the Nazi Browser…

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    [–] ZILtoid1991@lemmy.world 3 points 6 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (1 children)

    You don't need too much GUI, it's usually just bloat. A lot of race cars have their interior ripped out for less weight, I consider using the terminal as much as possible the same vein. The terminal also acts as a gatekeeping mechanism in Linux, I don't want normies ruining the Linux ecosystem, all the problems of tech blamed on unmanaged capitalism by Ed Zitron and Cory Doctorow are actually all the result of woke DEI Code of Conducts, go watch Brian Lunduke to learn more.

    Yes, it's going to be uncomfortable for a few months, maybe even a few years. You might get called a lot of bad words along the way, maybe even get doxxed and harassed IRL, but it's just normal human behavior. Nowadays I'm writing my Python and Javascript code on Arch Linux using neovim, on a 65% artisan mechanical keyboard, and I've set my own custom shortcuts for everything. In my free time, I harass Rust, Swift, Go, D, etc. developers, and call them weak and pathetic for wanting to do system development using a language with both memory safety and without janky design that made sense on an old mainframe with limited memory. You either use C/C++, maybe assembly, for system development, or a bloated scripting language for memory safety on top of a C/C++ system!

    Nowadays I'm writing my Python and Javascript code on Arch Linux using neovim, on a 65% artisan mechanical keyboard, and I've set my own custom shortcuts for everything.

    Pfft, normie. I use Emacs.

    [–] Thyrian@ttrpg.network 4 points 6 days ago

    Just give me your rdp access. I promise I will not abuse it.

    [–] MonkeyBrawler@lemm.ee 2 points 5 days ago

    them : Be more descriptive!!

    You: more descriptive

    them: pasting "be more descriptive" in every other post

    [–] Kristof12@lemmy.ml 1 points 5 days ago

    Cinnamon just works

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