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this post was submitted on 21 May 2025
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The problem is that when people say "New Trek", they actually mean Discovery.
Discovery is a poorly written show made by people who do not grok Trek, and think that high ranking naval officers behaving like teenagers makes for good TV. SNW is alsio Nu Trek and manages to be faithful to the original vision while introducing new concepts.
Calling people critical of poory written shows bigots is very discrespectful. You may like it, but that doesn't mean that everybody else has to like it as well.
But don't you get it: woke is when no cleavage plunges.
What I liked was how casually they were progressive. Like no biggie, this is just a thing, it's the future so why would it be a big deal. When they wanted to speak to a modern day issue with more gravity, either some time travel to create a human context where it could be controversial, or some alien metaphor that was super obvious but still technically not humans being backwards.
Discovery had a habit of being a bit too over the top about it and self congratulatory in media.
A good modern example of all things I think was the Orville. Humans again are casually progressive, so they had the all male species be the focus of gender issues.
They made because they’re not awake.
What was that show that had the first recognized interracial kiss? Way back in November 22 1968 ... honestly, if Star Trek had done that it would have been considered shocking and "woke".
Star Trek has ALWAYS been controversial.
not only that, interracial crew, a Japanese, russian and a black woman on the main crew!!!
I hate posts about some vocal asshat complaining about something being woke. Anybody who uses the word woke derogatory is an asshole who doesn't deserve a moment of my attention.
Honestly just miss everyone working together. I only did about 1.5 seasons each of Picard and Discovery, but I just couldn't take all the "the enemy is each other". If I wanted that I'd watch the expanse? Ftr I will watch them in entirety and fully judge at that point, rn I haven't so can't say they offer nothing. SNW seems to get it though which I appreciate and hope continues. There are so few optimistic sci-fi shows I really want trek to stick to that niche.
Idk, I think Discovery just sucks.
Strange New Worlds and Lower Decks kick ass, though.
Edit: Discovery and Picard. Picard sucks ass, too. I just cannot force myself further than episode two.
I just gave picard another go and knocked it off but jeeeeeesus. So much nonsensical bullshit and how can you faff about so much with so few episodes.
Yeah, I also absolutely hate the lighting. Everything is either way too dark or way too bright or somehow both at the same time. I remember seeing a trailer for one of the later seasons and the federation ships seem like they'd super uncomfortable to be on.
I think the difference is because Disco and Picard are serialized while SNW and LD are episodic.
On serialized Trek, if the writers get a bug up their asses to do a mirror universe storyline or a section 31 storyline, you're stuck with that tedious bullshit for at least half a season. If episodic Trek has a stinkburger episode that everyone mocks for decades (Sub Rosa), the next week can give you a premise so beloved that they base a whole series on it (Lower Decks).
Episodic Trek can take more risks. I kinda miss the longer seasons for the same reason.
Yes, upon rewatching TNG, I realized that I might actually like less than half of the stories that much, but that still leaves so many stories I do like.
If I was inclined to like a discovery story to start with, it will wear out its welcome pretty soon because they drag it out so long.
Picard sucks
But how can this be? They are shoving so much fan service down your throat.
As we all know, after 2 bad seasons, fan service makes good show!
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It annoys me that new trek got wrapped up in this discourse because my dislike of it is because of the image above
Old trek was super "woke" and optimistic, I see new trek as too focused on war and it paints the future as though they never achieved luxury space communism free of scarcity
Picard falls over because what should be left as a character study has clumsy attempts to jam 'action trek' up it, often derailing it. DISC tells us the universe is dark and full of terrors. Both tell us we fucked up and that we should fear.
PIC and DISC remain trapped in the time and political and emotional states of their making. Jihadists and racism, the same political and bigoted circles over and over. SNW and LD - and yes The Orville - like classic trek show us a version of this - but then reach past to show we could have something better. To normalise that something better.
And it's in the normalisation where Trek's REAL power has always lain. You can tell a thousand aesops, clumsy or skilled on the fool who oppressed his equal, but they don't hold a single candle to the simple fact Uhura is a bridge officer. To McCoy yielding without second thought to M'Benga as a more skilled MO. To former enemies in the crew, women in command, loving single black fathers, genderqueer species, Autistic ciphers, queer couples, trans children. All of them normalised. All of them not begging, demanding, fighting for respect - but simply receiving it. The disrespectful are the denormalised, and they must be fought. A better life is not a dream to strive for held out of reach, it's simply the base state of existence.
Picard and disc forgot that, and its a real fuckin' shame.
I think that, starting with the Marquis, Trek was trying to address issues that might arise even with luxury space communism.
"It's easy to be a saint in paradise."
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I think your comment could reasonably apply to early Discovery and Picard, but not so much to the rest of nuTrek. It could equally apply to DS9 and Enterprise - but not so much to the rest oldTrek (Voyager might straddle the line).
I think it’s most accurate to say that Star Trek as a whole has generally shown alternating waves of reifying and challenging the utopian future concept. Overall that gives a message that a better society can be achieved, but the work of living up to that vision can never end. It works for me.
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Old trek was super "woke" and optimistic, I see new trek as too focused on war and it paints the future as though they never achieved luxury space communism free of scarcity
At least on that front, it seemed to be rather conditional. If you were not an organic humanoid, you had a much more difficult time.
Just look at Measure of a Man, and what Starfleet later tried to pull with Lal, or what happened on the Sutherland. Or the ExoComps. Or what happened to the deprecated EMH Mk. I units, and the Voyager's EMH and his holonovel. Or the UGLY BAGS OF MOSTLY WATER crystal aliens. Or the Horta. Or Hugh.
I cannot imagine that the Federation would have ordered the developing a form of memetic virus that would telepathically spread amongst the Klingon population and wipe them all out when they were at war with the Empire.
But they did order it against the Borg, intending to use Hugh as a vector.
In fairness I think the memetic virus was meant to stimulate individualism and perhaps general revolt in the Borg, and Picard and co didn't think it would result in the collective simply purging entire cubes remotely just to keep the contagion contained. The memetic virus was meant to be the nonlethal option. It turned out to be lethal only because Picard and co underestimated just how ruthlessly it would be crushed. Of course, then again, perhaps I'm misremembering.
In fairness I think the memetic virus was meant to stimulate individualism and perhaps general revolt in the Borg, and Picard and co didn’t think it would result in the collective simply purging entire cubes remotely just to keep the contagion contained
No, the virus was meant to exploit a fault in their visual programming to kill the Borg drones and wipe them out. The individuality came as an accidental side effect, when Hugh developed a taste of individuality after losing his connection to the Collective, and roamed around the Enterprise.
When they came to collect, the collective re-assimilated Hugh and also got the individuality he gained, which then led them to explode cubes.
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That argument is indeed stupid, but Kurtzman Trek is inferior in every other way.
- the plots are often incoherent
- the tone strays too far from what made classic Star Trek compelling
- the overuse of action and spectacle comes at the expense of thoughtful Sci fi
- Character development feels shallow to nonexistent
- and so much more
Everything is just bad.
I still maintain that as great as DS9 was, it started Trek on a self-destructive path of constantly trying to go even darker and edgier. Gene had utopian rules for a reason, and although some of them were probably too restrictive, the whole point of Star Trek, the unique selling point it possesses that no other franchise has, is that it offers us a vision of the future that isn't a dystopian hellscape. A positive look at what the future could be for us if we follow our nobler instincts. DS9 eroded that by suggesting that it was all bullshit, that the Federation was just as unenlightened as we are today, and although it made for a great show in the short term, in the long term it hurt the franchise because darker and edgier yields ever diminishing returns.
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I feel pretty much the same about anyone who complains about something being "woke", no matter the topic - if perceiving and objecting to harms against and struggles of others not like yourself offends you, if seeing others actively try to work in support of those others is something you just can't stomach, then you aren't someone whose opinion I care about.
Plus the folks making those complaints can rarely define what woke is, or struggle to without using language that will immediately "out" their actual objections.
If anyone ever uses the word woke you can automatically assume they're a moron who only gets outraged at what fox news tells them to be outraged at.
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We should only watch the real old trek.
I mean, it was one of the first shows ever to:
- have a woman in a command position,
- depict a black person in a non-servile role,
- show Russians and Americans working as a team during the Cold War, and
- have an Asian character portrayed by an actual Asian actor,
but it wasn’t woke!
MLK Jr himself called Nichelle Nichols to encourage her to play Uhura. First interracial kiss on scripted television. She worked with NASA after Trek to encourage and recruit black and female astronauts.
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STD and picard is pretty much the reason why they start calling it woke, they dint care of the plot/and the series were crappy, just that the showrunners try to overemphasize certain characthers that they are not white, and straight and men. also the problem with STD, was naming an unlikable characther/actor as the lead role and to captain with a name that is only assigned to one gender, they were hoping this is a distraction for a poor series/writing overall. an analagous media, is J lawrence being a goodie two shoes, mary sue about her importance.
Picard? The series literally laser focused on and named after the cis white man?
conservatives were ignoring the premise, they only care about which characthers were acting out of thier traditional roles.
Yep. I just watched 'Past Tense' this week, where DS9 spends an entire two-parter advocating for the humane treatment of homeless and unemployed people through an economic policy of full employment. The characters succeed in bringing this about by staging an armed uprising largely led by a black man. It's not only 'woke' but explicitly socialist!
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Yeah, anyone who complains that Trek is suddenly all woke and political now never watched any classic Star Trek or hasn't been paying attention back then.
I've watched all of Star Trek on the big screens and the small ones at least once - including Section 31 - and it's as political as it has ever been. And there has always been brilliance and absolute dogshit. Those who say NuTrek is all shite don't know what they're talking about.
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