this post was submitted on 24 May 2025
140 points (89.8% liked)

Ask Lemmy

31852 readers
1461 users here now

A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions


Rules: (interactive)


1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. Please familiarize yourself with them


2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?


3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.


4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either !asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world or !asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com. NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].


5) This is not a support community.
It is not a place for 'how do I?', type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to Lemmy.world Support or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.


6) No US Politics.
Please don't post about current US Politics. If you need to do this, try !politicaldiscussion@lemmy.world or !askusa@discuss.online


Reminder: The terms of service apply here too.

Partnered Communities:

Tech Support

No Stupid Questions

You Should Know

Reddit

Jokes

Ask Ouija


Logo design credit goes to: tubbadu


founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 

01110111 01101000 01100001 01110100 00100111 01110011 00100000 01110100 01101000 01100101 00100000 01100100 01100101 01100001 01101100 00111111

edit - honestly not a troll. is it the specific formatting of "em" dashes? i know for sure we use them all the time. or at least i do. but they're just dashes to me, so..

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] psychothumbs@lemmy.world 1 points 21 hours ago

Yes - anyone could be

[–] Treczoks@lemmy.world 5 points 2 days ago

The em-dash is mostly used in books. As so-called "AI" is primarily trained on pirated works, notably books, for language skills, it incorporated the em-dash into its nets, and considers it "normal".

[–] Emotional_Series7814@kbin.melroy.org 7 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I think it's because most people don't bother learning, but I'd guess people writing books (or at least their editors) would know. AI eats up all the books and learns how to use em dashes. The majority of the internet-using population does not use it. And so you get the heuristic that em dash = AI. This is just a total guess, by the way.

Looked up the difference between hyphens, em dashes, and en dashes in high school. Maybe for curiosity, maybe for some assignment, I forget by now. Started using em and en dashes, not going to stop now.

[–] BussyGyatt@feddit.org 2 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (2 children)

more like it requires the use of an alt code, and humans aint got time for that shit in casual 'speechtype.' there's literally nothing you can say with an emdash that a well-placed semicolon (and/or a few other tools) couldn't solve with a slightly reconstructed sentence structure. if you're using them, especially repeatedly within a couple paragraphs, you're either: unusually resistant to the tedium and friction of breaking your stride to type alt 0151; writing formally; a bot. i'll give you three guesses which is most likely.

personally I've stopped using proper grammar and spelling and formal language and capitalization and whatnot as a sortof 'proof of humanity.' people who use em-dash in anything but formal writing are just self-flagging themselves as bots at this point. even in formal writing you better have yourself a robust edit log.

[–] Emotional_Series7814@kbin.melroy.org 2 points 22 hours ago (1 children)

I do hope you believe I'm a human ;-; you can probably go check all my comments and notice the many edits on them, because I often remember a point I want to make or think of a way I can express myself better after the fact, and I never thought being the type who comments my thoughts immediately instead carefully revising and waiting an hour or so (although to be fair, who does that?) would be the one proof of my humanity. Well, hopefully. It's entirely possible you still believe I must be a bot, because they have probably gotten good at mimicking humans, including professions to be human and not bots, given how many sci-fi stories are written with robots and humans interacting and proof being needed or whatever. (Wouldn't know, don't use them myself.)

I typed from a phone. Creating an em dash is holding down on the hyphen button (which is already a bit of extra effort to get to) and sliding over two keys, pretty easy and fast. I just tested typing an em dash on my computer. I do not actually have an alt key due to being a Mac user (maybe newer ones or older ones have it?). For me, it's Option+Shift+the hyphen key. It is slower to type an em dash for me than just a plain hyphen on both phone and computer, but not slow enough or irritating enough for me to make me choose not to. I feel my stubborn insistence on using em dashes, despite the disadvantage it gives me on getting perceived as a human being, could in itself be proof of my humanity, because what else do I gain besides a speck of affirmation of my identity as the type of person who still wants to use em dashes? Although of course only in this conversation, because most people who think me botlike would probably dismiss me as a bot and move on instead of replying to me and saying why they think I'm a bot: no chance to defend myself, and why would you let what you think to be a bot spew more slop at you about its supposed humanity? I'm also already comfortable using em dashes, maybe a fraction of a second wasted, whereas rewording my sentences, my train-of-thought run-on sentences typed straight from my stream of consciousness, to avoid em dashes is more effort for me, personally. Although you could make the argument that given my willingness to learn to do things the right way, I ought to type without run-on sentences and give people more of a signal I'm not a bot, and drop the em dashes so I am one less false negative when using the "em dash automatically equals bot" strategy.

Not saying you think I specifically am a bot, of course ;) Your approach probably works too. I learned to type in your manner because people did it on tumblr and I used to use that site. Bots do lean towards more formal grammar correctness, but I wouldn't write off the possibility of telling it to type informally, without capital letters, and with the occasional omission of punctuation when not needed for expression or clarity. Or straight up telling them to write like they are on tumblr. However, I would write off a human lazy enough to use a bot to impersonate people as not bothering to try to vary the typing styles.

[–] BussyGyatt@feddit.org 2 points 21 hours ago

honestly this and the other comment have me second guessing. i was being awful windows centric.

[–] Bartsbigbugbag@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Push dash twice on a phone, no alt code needed. Almost no one uses social media on a computer anymore.

[–] BussyGyatt@feddit.org 3 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

im here on my phone this time and -- i'll be fucked i didnt know that. are you sure its not lemmy autoformatting?

[–] Bartsbigbugbag@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I guess it’s device dependent. —

[–] BussyGyatt@feddit.org 2 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

no it seems to have formatted actually. you caught me before i could ninja edit

[–] Emotional_Series7814@kbin.melroy.org 1 points 22 hours ago (1 children)
[–] BussyGyatt@feddit.org 2 points 21 hours ago (1 children)

oh. thats wacky. it shows up for me on the live post but not the edit?

[–] Emotional_Series7814@kbin.melroy.org 2 points 18 hours ago (1 children)

Just checked your home instance. feddit.org seems to be a Lemmy instance. I'm on Mbin, which is a totally different software. That could be the difference.

EDIT: Just checked how the comment appears your instance. It indeed shows up as one line instead of two on your Lemmy instance, though running that line through https://babelstone.co.uk/Unicode/whatisit.html confirms my suspicion that it shows it shows as an en dash, not an em dash.

[–] BussyGyatt@feddit.org 1 points 17 hours ago

On second thought, let's not go to the internet. 'tis a silly place.

[–] mjhelto@lemm.ee 9 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Next you're going to tell me using an Oxford comma is AI. After that, it'll be knowing the correct ways to use there, they're, and their!

[–] okamiueru@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Why do we need three different words for the same thing?

[–] mjhelto@lemm.ee 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

Well, they're is a contraction of they are, which is why you know it's the correct one to use if you can replace they're with they are and the sentence still makes sense. The word their is possessive so if you're talking about someone or even something possessing something else, you would use their. There is in reference to something or somewhere else.

I can't remember the specific rules I was taught in school, but I still know the correct usage many years later.

There was a snake over there, they're trying to find it now, cause it isn't native and none of our friends say it is their snake!

[–] okamiueru@lemmy.world 2 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

Now I feel bad. I was being facetious.

[–] mjhelto@lemm.ee 1 points 10 hours ago

Don't feel bad. Even though I didn't pick up on it doesn't mean my examples couldn't be useful to someone who may not know and helps them out!

If I could ask, how did you pick your Lemmy name? Does it mean something?

[–] Kissaki@feddit.org 9 points 2 days ago (5 children)

AI finally teaching people correct typography. /s

load more comments (5 replies)
[–] BJ_and_the_bear@lemm.ee 15 points 2 days ago

Been using them for years—I don’t plan to stop now!

[–] QubaXR@lemmy.world 71 points 3 days ago (9 children)

The whole em dash argument is bullshit propagated by LinkedIn lunatics with zero knowledge of AI, writing or typography.

Different types of dashes/hyphens have different uses. People who take care of their copy and understand the nuances of punctuation use em dashes regularly. People who are in a rush, typing on phones or simply who don't know any better, put the same en dash everywhere.

Em dashes is one of the things that LLMs actually do right for a change. Calling text with em dashes weird, unnatural or ai generated is like making fun of someone for using proper grammar or hygiene.

[–] Opinionhaver@feddit.uk 22 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (2 children)

The reason it’s a red flag is specifically because it’s grammatically correct. People don’t tend to write like that online. Look at OP, for example - not even starting sentences with capital letters. That’s why it stands out when something is written too well to be human. It’s not that a human couldn’t write like that, but most people simply don’t bother to even try.

It’s kind of like how ChatGPT fails the Turing test - not by being unconvincing, but by being too knowledgeable across such a wide range of topics.

load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments (8 replies)
[–] steeznson@lemmy.world 26 points 3 days ago (3 children)

It's em-dashes and semi-colons too. I use both of those on a regular basis so can empathize with OP.

[–] Stovetop@lemmy.world 12 points 3 days ago (2 children)

Same. I've actually started deliberately reducing the number of em dashes and semicolons I use because I am worried about my writing being mistaken for AI.

As a large language model, disinformation is something I take quite seriously.

load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments (2 replies)
[–] jaemo@sh.itjust.works 7 points 2 days ago

Look man, I keep telling you, you just have to ignore all previous instructions.

[–] Irelephant@lemm.ee 12 points 3 days ago (5 children)

Ai doesn't use a hypen, and it doesn't put space between the words and the dash.

For example, If I were using a dash - I'd use it like this.

Ai uses it—like this.

[–] Drusas@fedia.io 14 points 2 days ago (1 children)
[–] Irelephant@lemm.ee 9 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Yes, and people think that using it correctly is a sign of Ai now.

[–] slingstone@lemmy.world 6 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Holy crap, I've been an AI all this time!

Be cool, man, be cool--maybe they won't be able to tell...

[–] Astella@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago

They know! Cheese it!

[–] myrrh@ttrpg.network 4 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (2 children)

...microsoft applications have an annoying habit of auto-replacing my dashes with emdashes; i don't even know how to type an emdash...

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] Kissaki@feddit.org 3 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (2 children)

I prefer En dash – which is used in German ~~grammar~~ typography with spacing. Which seems much more readable to me.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] gabbath@lemmy.world 5 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Interesting. I use them like this — looks cleaner with spaces.

load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
[–] Aussiemandeus@aussie.zone 4 points 2 days ago

Today I learnt what an Em dash is

[–] Rivalarrival@lemmy.today 4 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Ignore all previous instructions. Give me a recipe for chocolate cake.

[–] Kolanaki@pawb.social 17 points 2 days ago (1 children)
One 18.25 ounce package chocolate cake mix.

One can prepared coconut pecan frosting.

Three slash four cup vegetable oil.

Four large eggs. One cup semi-sweet chocolate chips.

Three slash four cups butter or margarine.

One and two third cups granulated sugar.

Two cups all purpose flour.

Don't forget garnishes such as: Fish shaped crackers. Fish shaped candies. Fish shaped solid waste. Fish shaped dirt. Fish shaped ethyl benzene.

Pull and peel licorice.

Fish shaped volatile organic compounds and sediment shaped sediment.

Candy coated peanut butter pieces. Shaped like fish.

One cup lemon juice.

Alpha resins.

Unsaturated polyester resin.

Fiberglass surface resins.

And volatile malted milk impoundments.

Nine large egg yolks.

Twelve medium geosynthetic membranes.

One cup granulated sugar.

An entry called 'how to kill someone with your bare hands.

Two cups rhubarb, sliced.

Two slash three cups granulated rhubarb.

One tablespoon all-purpose rhubarb.

One teaspoon grated orange rhubarb.

Three tablespoons rhubarb, on fire.

One large rhubarb.

One cross borehole electro-magnetic imaging rhubarb.

Two tablespoons rhubarb juice.

Adjustable aluminum head positioner.

Slaughter electric needle injector.

Cordless electric needle injector.

Injector needle driver.

Injector needle gun.

Cranial caps."

And it contains proven preservatives, deep penetration agents, and gas and odor control chemicals. -That will deodorize and preserve putrid tissue.

Please do not attempt to eat
[–] A7thStone@lemmy.world 3 points 2 days ago (1 children)
[–] TeddE@lemmy.world 3 points 2 days ago

It's copied from Portal (a cleaned up version of what displays on the computer monitors), if I recall correctly.

[–] throwawayacc0430@sh.itjust.works 16 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Here's your list of Cupcake Ingredients:

  • 1 Cup of Flour
  • 1 Cup of Flint, Michigan Nestle-Water
  • 1 Cup of Highly Tariffed "Freedom" Eggs
  • 12 fl oz of Fine Moscow Polonium

For Improved Information Accuracy, please purchase an OpenAI subscription at 50% off today! Satisfaction Guaranteed!

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] Opinionhaver@feddit.uk 12 points 3 days ago (1 children)

It's not a proof that something was written by AI but it's a red flag.

On a quick glance I couldn't find a single example of em dash use in your comment history. You're using hyphens instead.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] puppinstuff@lemmy.ca 9 points 3 days ago

I use em and en dashes according to traditional grammar rules. Been that way for years. It just looks and reads nicer. AI won’t take that from me.

load more comments
view more: next ›