this post was submitted on 12 Jun 2025
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GrapheneOS statement on Mastodon: https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/114661914197695338

Calyx made an official statement on this development here: https://calyxos.org/news/2025/06/11/android-16-plans/

Concerning stuff. Hopefully a workaround or solution is found at some point, but if not, I'm already thinking of how to manage without them.

I can't see myself going back to a standard Android phone, so I suppose worse case scenario, I'd have to settle with LineageOS, or potentially abandon Android altogether and see if I can manage with discrete separate devices to fulfill the same needs, such as:

  • a pocketable mini-Linux PC like a MNT Pocket Reform, which has the ability to use cellular networks. Should be able to text, browse web, and maybe GPS? Alternatively, perhaps the Mecha Comet?
  • Small pocket-able dumb camera
  • MP3 player
  • Dumb-phone kept in a faraday bag when not in use?

EDIT:

Update on the situation from GrapheneOS in this thread (using Redlib, a proxy of Reddit)

The biggest problem for GrapheneOS is not the change to AOSP but rather our lead developer since 2022 being forcibly conscripted to fight in a war in April. That's why we've been asking for help since April.

In April, we were contacted by someone about upcoming changes to AOSP impacting us including the removal of device support in Android 16. We talked about it internally but didn't know if the information was credible. We prepared as much as we could for the Android 16 port but didn't know exactly what would happen with device support. If we had clearer information on it and knew it was accurate, we could have prepared much more in advanced.

Porting to Android 16 is required to continue shipping full Android privacy/security patches regardless of device. Only the latest stable release gets full privacy/security patches, which was the May release of Android 15 QPR2 and is not Android 16. Older releases only get backports.

Pixels also only have their driver and firmware patches for Android 16, although we're working on a release within the next 24 hours with backports of the most important firmware patches. We would normally have an experimental Android 16 release out already, if they hadn't made changes to AOSP.

There are further changes coming to AOSP. It is not only what is talked about there.

In another comment:

We're going to be continuing GrapheneOS but in the long term we'll need to shift to our own devices with an OEM partner.

It's not only Pixels which are going to be impacted. Pixels are still the only devices meeting our hardware requirements (https://grapheneos.org/faq#future-devices). It's clear we need our own hardware in partnership with an OEM that's serious about security and capable of delivering on it. We've had several attempts at OEM partnerships but they were unable to provide what we needed. It will cost millions of dollars to get a device meeting our basic requirements. We can do that, but we hoped for an OEM wanting to work with us instead of us needing to pay for everything through raising funds. We didn't end up finding a good OEM to work with that way so we'll do it the hard way.

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[–] vga@sopuli.xyz 4 points 4 hours ago* (last edited 4 hours ago)

The biggest problem for GrapheneOS is not the change to AOSP but rather our lead developer since 2022 being forcibly conscripted to fight in a war in April.

Is the lead developer ukrainian?

edit Answering my own question, yes: https://dev.ua/en/news/mobilizatsiia-v-grapheneos-1745408138

[–] falynns@lemmy.world 1 points 4 hours ago

Global conglomerates are not your friend.

[–] carrylex@lemmy.world 15 points 20 hours ago

Summary for people who don't like to for 10 minutes:

Only Google Pixels are currently affected

from Calyx's post:

  • Google did not publish any device-specific source code for supported, modern Pixel devices.
  • In previous years, Google released full device trees alongside new Android versions. This allowed developers to build and boot AOSP on Pixel hardware relatively easily.
  • With Android 16, only the platform/framework code has been released. The device trees are missing, at least for now.

So let's don't panic and just wait a few days until more information is available...

[–] LWD@lemm.ee 5 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

Replacing a smartphone with hardware that fills your smartphone needs is more expensive than I'd like.

  • MNT Pocket Reform: €1,050.00, or $1,215.86
  • 2013 Sony HX50, used: $220

Over $1400 and a lot of space for devices that, together, perform roughly the same functions as a new $800 smartphone.

How do phones manage to fit such decent cameras into their tiny chassis while still keeping the price down and also being a phone? I've seen explanations about how incredibly cutting-edge tech makes it into phone cameras, but it's hard to fathom how the surveillance inside of them subsidizes the camera costs.

(Regardless, I would love recommendations for a good all-around digital camera that can actually compete with a phone's camera app: low light conditions, macro, a little zoom, gps tagging, preferably fit in your pocket. Even if it's old)

[–] ProdigalFrog@slrpnk.net 3 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

Woah, I missed that the MNT mini laptop costs that much, that's wildly out of my budget. I think the Mecha thing is much cheaper (and a better form factor), though I'm not sure if it can use cellular networks.

[–] LWD@lemm.ee 2 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

It's an admirable benchmark at least. I was eying "pocket laptops" but I didn't see any with a screen under 8" that also supported a SIM added or PCIE slot to add my own, let alone hardware that wouldn't require tinkering to run Linux. Most were $400ish devices with questionable build quality and Windows 11 preinstalled.

[–] Vanilla_PuddinFudge@infosec.pub 1 points 4 hours ago

Windows 11 or not, most people with GPD Win devices tend to swear by them, and I think they're linux compatible. https://github.com/aarron-lee/gpd-win-tricks

[–] Metz@lemmy.world 55 points 1 day ago (4 children)

For fucks sake. Got me a pixel not even a year ago especially for Graphene -_-

[–] Lonewolfmcquade@lemmy.world 11 points 1 day ago

Yup. My pixel arrived 2 weeks ago. Just loaded Graphene last week. Haven't even put the sim card in it yet. FFS

[–] Jhex@lemmy.world 10 points 1 day ago (2 children)

I just switched phones and I specifically gave up on my wish for GrapheneOS seeing it all but married to the Pixel line. I get that Pixels were popular but this was just a terrible decision on their part given the goal of GrapheneOS overall...

Honestly, this is like rallying against Toyota by only buying Corollas

[–] Metz@lemmy.world 15 points 20 hours ago (1 children)

Its not about popularity. to be frank, the performance of Pixels is mediocre at best. It is neither particularly fast, nor does it have a particularly long battery life, nor is it overly stylish.

The strength lies in the dedicated security hardware and the fact that you can re-lock the bootloader, which is extremely rare. plus 7 to 10 years support with updates.

In terms of privacy and security the combination of Pixel Hardware and GrapheneOS Software could be considered the holy grail. There is just no other hardware right now that comes even close.

[–] Jhex@lemmy.world 9 points 19 hours ago

That is, of course, until today when Google pulled the rug from under it...

As I have said, there may have been a sound technical decision back in the day but from where I see it, most people attracted to a non-google Android probably were not kin on having to buy from google anyway... like choosing to be Vegetarian but only when eating at Montana's Steak House

[–] Onomatopoeia@lemmy.cafe 16 points 22 hours ago (1 children)

There's technical reasons Graphene went with Pixel - it's the only phone with the security hardware required for their security direction.

[–] Jhex@lemmy.world 9 points 21 hours ago

I understand... but again, strategically that meant they are as free from Google as Google allows them to be (case in point)

I am not 100% knowledgeable as to the history and mission of GrapheneOS, I checked them out trying to de-google. But when I found out that I must buy a flagship Google phone to use GrapheneOS, it immediately defeated the purpose I was trying to achieve

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[–] rolling@lemmy.world 86 points 1 day ago (3 children)

I think it was optimistic to think that GrapheneOS would survive long term while the only phones they worked with was made by, you know, Google. I understand their security requirements and respect that they did not make exceptions to be able to work with other devices, but I hope they now change their approach to this considering the alternative.

[–] Azzu@lemm.ee 45 points 1 day ago (18 children)

Relying on Google was always ridiculous. People thought they could have their cake (a device with cutting-edge hardware) and eat it too (not be spied on for ads to support this). It was always clear that Google will eventually fight against custom OS on their phones.

[–] kassiopaea@lemmy.blahaj.zone 24 points 1 day ago (4 children)

To be fair, it's entirely reasonable to be able to expect that paying money for something should get you the thing you paid for. It's just the current dystopia that we live in where corpos can't be satisfied with anything other than the continuous extraction of money from every possible consumer.

[–] nintendiator@feddit.cl 5 points 22 hours ago

To be fair, it’s entirely reasonable to be able to expect that paying money for something should get you the thing you paid for.

Fam, it's 2025, the last time what you say was entirely reasonable was, what, 1986?

GOS has lots of time to - even before their very own conception - to see the writing on the wall.

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[–] Zozano@aussie.zone 98 points 1 day ago

Google can suck my fat fucking graphenis

[–] sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 8 points 21 hours ago (1 children)

And apparently one of, if not the lead dev for GrapheneOS was conscripted, so they're working w/ less experienced devs to prep Android 16 w/ GrapheneOS changes.

[–] vga@sopuli.xyz 4 points 4 hours ago

Fuck Russia.

[–] MITM0@lemmy.world 18 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

Which is why we need to be pushing for Linux OS for mobile & methods to get them installed.

E.g: There's no PostMarketOS g UbuntuTouch for pixel 4, 4XL & 4a

We also need apps

[–] iturnedintoanewt@lemmy.world 15 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

Problem with phones is all the components have embedded firmwares, acting like small undocumented computers. This is a whole layer of cluster-fuckery for documenting drivers. You can check how for example the MS Surface has rather good Linux support....Except for the wencam, which has an intel module directly controlling the sensor, which is completely undocumented. Result -> ANy of these newer laptops have non-existent camera support. Imagine the same but not just the camera, but the GSM modem, the wifi, the storage adapter, NFC module, the battery...

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[–] glitching@lemmy.ml 28 points 1 day ago (5 children)

first off, you can continue using your existing gOS phone, it's not like it's gonna melt in yo hands the moment it's not "up to date" and there's gonna be security updates for the A15 base for a long time, no need to dig up MP3 players and NIKONs from 1970.

I personally can't stand the idea that it's only possible to be safe and secure if you use gOS, an Android fork that runs only on Pixel phones. leave aside the ridiculous concept that you have to give money to Google in order to escape its clutches, I maintain that those things are unnecessary. they are secure, but in the wrong way.

they have kernel hardening shit and encrypt this and that and verifiable boot and evil maid safe and sandbox to prevent malicious apps to get at your shit and whatnot, and if you're a MIT-educated Jason Bourne on the run from 5eyes or whoever, all of them things can come in handy.

but the humongously vast majority of us need but two things:

a) a lost or stolen device doesn't compromise me; the fuck that got it can't access my data and/or impersonate me. practically every AOSP/LineageOS version has this. b) the apps I get and the underlying OS are my agents; they do shit I want, the way I want to and if that's in conflict with its creator's ideas, I take precedence and not the other way around; forgoing Google in its entirety via AOSP/LOS/F-droid takes care of this.

both easily accomplished with a repurposed $50 phone and fixing and/or replacing the fucker at that price point is a no-brainer, wherever you're based.

the idea that a used phone that was touched and rubbed and spat all over and taken to the shitter and godknowswhatelse at $300 should be the entry barrier for not getting assraped on the reg, I don't know what to tell you, except maybe check your privilege, idk.

[–] ProdigalFrog@slrpnk.net 29 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (3 children)

they have kernel hardening shit and encrypt this and that and verifiable boot and evil maid safe and sandbox to prevent malicious apps to get at your shit and whatnot, and if you’re a MIT-educated Jason Bourne on the run from 5eyes or whoever, all of them things can come in handy.

Considering that a significant portion of the US population may be targeted by the regime at some point in the future, having a device that is more resistant and private against those threats is a massive boon.

If you're not engaging in any resistance or are lucky enough to live in an area where that isn't a concern, sure, those features aren't essential, but they also don't hurt in most cases (I'd want sandboxing no matter what, it's just a nice layer of security against potentially compromised apps, which can be on any distribution platform).

the idea that a used phone that was touched and rubbed and spat all over and taken to the shitter and godknowswhatelse at $300 should be the entry barrier for not getting assraped on the reg, I don’t know what to tell you, except maybe check your privilege, idk.

I'm not really sure where this is coming from, since no one here ever suggested that LineageOS isn't adequate for some (probably even most) use cases. I only spoke for myself, and I value privacy and security far more than the average person due to needing it.

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[–] leds@feddit.dk 3 points 19 hours ago (1 children)

What about jolla (with sailfish OS and support for android apps). Anyone any experience with this?

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[–] JubilantJaguar@lemmy.world 12 points 1 day ago

There will be many ways to get an extremely secure OS running on a mobile device. The problem is apps. Specifically, apps that are plugged into corporate clouds, i.e. an absolute ton of them.

The general problem IMO is that people are addicted to mobile computing. The tough form factor and performance specs mean that the hardware is locked down. Which puts free software at a major disadvantage.

The web platform is our last best hope. Keeping it competitive is going to be a political challenge as much as a technical one.

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