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I never understand this mindset because a person who is technically skilled like this is exactly the kind of person who wouldn’t struggle with Linux.
They’re already the kind of person who would be an excellent Linux user. I can only imagine that, for whatever reason, they’ve grown emotionally attached and are simply too stubborn to consider anything else.
My favorite is the pcmr type that says Linux is to hard, but their comment history recommends registry edits to keep edge from becoming the default browser or something stupid.
I didn't know I'm already a computer pro by following a couple of idiot-proof steps I found by googling.
Unironically, yes. That’s not nearly as common sense as you may think. There’s no such thing as idiot-proof steps. To some you may very well be a pro from that alone.
There is no such thing as idiot-proof steps to tamper the registry. Most of those registry keys are not documented, and it's very hard to be completely sure about what you are touching.
If you need a debloated experience, install LTSC.
How do you think we all learned linux?
I'm using Linux professionally since ~15 years and my private PCs are on Linux since ~5 years.
Registry hacks are still much, much easier than what you sometimes have to do on Linux.
The main reason is variability. There are at most 2-3 different versions of Windows in support at a time, with about a billion users between these 2-3 versions. That means, you will easily find a detailed fix for your problem that will work just fine. You can blindly paste it into the registry, and it will do what you expect.
Linux on the other hand has 2-5 supported versions per distro, and each distro tends to have between a handful and a dozen flavours, so the chance of some random guide on the internet actually applying to your setup is much, much lower. If you use Ubuntu 24.04, chances are quite high to find something, but even with Fedora you are often stuck having to translate solutions to your distro. Sometimes it's as simple as searching through your package manager to figure out how that package is named for your distro, but at other times it means you have to compile stuff from scratch, or the solution might look like it would apply to your setup but it just doesn't work.
The registry is a nice centralized place with one set of rules how it works and how you interact with it.
Linux on the other hand has thousands of config files strewn over hundreds of directories, written in dozens of config file languages, and some configs aren't actually even done via config files (or shouldn't be done via them) but instead use random config tools instead.
Registry is easy mode.
Because nobody actually spends 2 weeks debloating and using Linux desktop isn't easier. This community exaggerates the difficulty of windows while minimizing Linus desktop issues.
This meme is basically a late night infomercial.
Guys, I'm a Linux user, too, but can we stop having these fake arguments, please?
Many such cases
I never met anyone in real life who said the stuff shown in this meme. The handful of comments here are few and far between.
Spent two weeks debloating
The folks who care enough to debloat are either already on Linux or would spend maybe 1-2h to make a few fixes, before they get something they are okay with.
Just install Linux
For those who stick with Windows, it's often more than "just switching". They may need certain software, they may not be tech-savvy, they may be insecure about whether they could handle the occasional hiccup on a system that is completely new to them. All valid reasons for hesitation, and "just switch" is about as helpful as "just cheer up".
Because learning Linux would take time.
I've used Linux for 15 years now, and I'm still constantly learning new things. Linux is so much more usable now than it ever was, and I also think more people should switch. But suggesting that you "learn Linux" in two weeks' time is just silly and dishonest IMO.
I wish we as a community could stop with this sense of superiority and actually acknowledge people's humane struggles to help them make the move.
I wish we as a community could stop with this sense of superiority
Not possible in a Linux community. They have only three jokes:
Fuck windows
I'm so smart for using the superior software stack (and everybody is an idiot for not switching)
and my personal favorite: constantly trying to trick people into using FOSS software by telling everybody they're as good even in cases where they're clearly not (bro please use GIMP it's actually really good bro as soon as you understand its archaic 1998 user interface it's just as good as photoshop bro please)
and my personal favorite: constantly trying to trick people into using FOSS software by telling everybody they’re as good even in cases where they’re clearly not (bro please use GIMP it’s actually really good bro as soon as you understand its archaic 1998 user interface it’s just as good as photoshop bro please)
This. So this.
But coming from a position of nativity, it's even almost understandable. For someone with a software development background, Linux is easily on-par with Windows and for many stacks even a lot better. There are a few cool pieces of software that don't exist under Linux (e.g. Sourcetree) but there are decent replacements that are maybe a little bit less convenient.
So if you are a software developer and a very light user of stuff like Office, graphics/audio/video editing and similar stuff, you might actually believe that the FOSS alternatives in these areas are also decently good enough.
I mean, for me GIMP and LibreOffice are totally good enough, because I do next to nothing with these tools, and for the one children's birthday party per year that I make, GIMP and LibreOffice are totally enough.
The actual hubris here is to think that my noob-level experience with these tools allows me to judge whether these tools are good enough for professional use.
I spent 1-2 hours debloating Windows and it turns out Windows update doesn't work unless you turn back on the Windows firewall service.
I forgot how I disabled it in the first place, so I gave up and installed Linux
It'd be nice if public schools used Linux for coursework instead of Windows. But it seems they settled with chromebooks, so now kids are even worse off.
Ironic that they are on Linux, as ChromeOS is Gentoo, but it's the worst possible distro to use.
chrome os is Gentoo ?!?
I mean what else is it supposed to be – Windows based?
There’s known knowns, known unknowns, and unknown unknowns. The first requires a lot less brainpower than the last.
I remember people laughing about that Rumsfeld speech but I just feel like those people didn't really get what he meant
Linux takes a long time to learn and is often quirky and strange in unexpected ways- life long Windows users already know how horrible Windows is and its quirky strange behaviors.
We stick with what we know. Unlearning behaviors is doubly hard when replacing them with something better.
I am one of those people.
I'm sorry but I can't dedicate the time. Last time I tried to install it for someone else I went down a 5h rabbit hole of finding a driver for a scanner, and I was at the point where I had custom pkg repositories and needed to fix pkg dependency conflicts myself and I don't have the OS knowledge to do all this, and I didn't have time because I had to travel back again.
When I tried installing it for myself, I was missing critical software for a variety of things. For example, there's no good DAW on Linux, and even if there was, lots of VST plugins are only Linux compatible. Things like Adobe Premiere Pro and Adobe After Effects have no solid alternative to this day for Linux and hence I'm struggling to replace them. Blender is on Linux (obv) but for example render engines usually only come with software for windows.
And then there's a bunch of things where I'm not sure how compatible they are even if they were to run on Linux. Office uses proprietary file format constraints to lock down their ecosystem. Sucks, but everyone uses it, so I'm stuck. Unreal Engine, lots games, my audio interface, drivers for obscure small devices I need? I just don't know and I have to dedicate time to researching all of it.
I hope you can see why someone like me has a very hard time just switching over. Yes I can just pull the plug and do it, but I will get no work done for a solid 2 weeks and even after that I will be heavily constrained.
And this all on top of the fact that I regularly set up Linux VMs for specific things which break way too often on regular use. Which also does not spark joy.
I hope you can understand why I'm fine debloating windows with Chris Titus for half an hour and then just enjoying 4 years on it without worrying about all of that is easier.
And believe me, I bought a notebook and will try to go CachyOS x KDE Plasma on that, but it will be an experiment and I have lots of doubt that this can replace my setup.
Funny how people write a long essay why they stay on Windows, claiming what a hassle it is to set up Linux. Sure, you might know how do deal with Windows, but don't expect that other systems work the same way. Windows is the odd one.
If you depend on Windows-only software, there is nothing wrong with sticking to it. Use the system that fits your needs the most.
What other systems do you think the average user comes into contact with that shares a usage paradigm with Linux?
no good daw
Ardour!
What about my vst plugins though? That's what's holding me back. Native Instruments, addictive drums 2 and not wanting to touch gimp/Inkscape.
I have yet to encounter a VST that doesn't work at minimum with yabridge. I gotta admit though, since I switched (ca. 3 years ago now) I find myself using Linux native tools much more that the VSTs I used to depend on so much. I use airwindows (full Linux compatibility) much more on the VST front, and find myself replacing many windows VSTs with pure data or supercollider...
Some cool Linux tools I've discovered and are now dominating my workflow:
Also audio management (routing, etc) is sooooo nice and faaaast with jack in Linux. Literally a dream. If anything, I think my experience has significantly improved since switching to Linux vis-a-vis audio production.
VSTs work with wine. I use Neural DSP amps with Ardour through pipewire. yabridge is the goat.
The potential pain with setups is a reason I like to point people at vendors like Slimbook, Tuxedo Computers or System76. Avoids a lot of possible problems for those who can afford it.
there's no good DAW on Linux
Now that's not true though. Bitwig Studio and Reaper f.e. support all the common plugins APIs and are excellent professional DAWs. And then of course you also got Ardour if you prefer FOSS.
Things like Adobe Premiere Pro and Adobe After Effects have no solid alternative to this day for Linux
I'm not perfectly familiar with Adobe products, but I'm very positive that DaVinci Resolve, Lightworks (literally used by Hollywood), Blender and Natron offer all the functionality those two do. And most likely with less crashes, as far as I heard about Premiere Pro. 🙃
Office uses proprietary file format constraints to lock down their ecosystem.
Didn't hear about issues with Office Suites in more than a decade. Microsoft famously manipulated their docs to hamper third-party apps in implementing docx support, that's quite a time ago though.
Unreal Engine, lots games, my audio interface, drivers for obscure small devices I need? I just don't know and I have to dedicate time to researching all of it.
Yeah, hardware is always a thing especially during a switch. Once you made it of course you can pick new gear that's known to be supported on Linux by their company. At least with Unreal Engine it's known to work, and Games by now basically always do except for those with the most vile Anti-Cheat.
I bought a notebook and will try to go CachyOS x KDE Plasma on that
May I suggest to use a more general-use, Ubuntu-based distro? Those often offer way better hardware support for more devices out of the box. That's one reason they're called bloated, but damn is it comfy sometimes.
Didn’t hear about issues with Office Suites in more than a decade. Microsoft famously manipulated their docs to hamper third-party apps in implementing docx support, that’s quite a time ago though.
This is still a thing. Open up MS Office docs in LibreOffice, and more often than not formatting will be messed up.
Ok for personal use, unacceptable for professional use.
Seems like you already went through the journey :)
I would say though before switching to Linux, switch all your critical apps to the one available on Linux first. Get used to it and when your are finally comfortable, switch your OS. No need to switch all of them in one go. If for whatever reason you are never get comfortable with the trade-off, just stay on Windows. It is fine.
switch all your critical apps to the one available on Linux first.
Gimp and stuff is a nice toy for people like me who don't need anything, but it's a long shot away from being competitive with commercial software for professional use.
Actually, stop telling people to "learn" linux. Linux is either supposed to be easily navigable without the Command Line, or it's not the right thing for most people.
Either dumb it down, or don't expect people to learn it.
Actually, stop telling people to "deal with" Windows (okay, this one is pretty weak). Windows is either supposed to be easily navigable without going through a dozen of buttons-tabs-subwindows, ot it's not the right thing for most people
Either dumb it down, or don't expect people to use it
You're 100% right.
Linux Mint is not hard to learn at all, it's almost identical to windows.
The problem is the random ass shit you have to debug that the average user will not do and conclude Linux sucks.
IE if you have an Nvidia card, which shit loads of people do, you will struggle with bullshit just having two monitors...
If you have Logitech devices, which shit load of people do, you won't have drivers and you'll have to fuck around dealing with shit.
In addition to other quirky shit that happens on Linux some not really Linux fault and some just is.
That said one of the good things about chat gtp / ai is that they are actually really helpful at debugging Linux.
So yea... Linux isn't just plug and play, the way windows is. Windows steals your data and has shit loads of bloat but just like cellphones the average person doesn't give a shit nor does he understand how / why windows is awful.
2 weeks? More like 10 mins..
Until the next re-bloating update where your settings get reverted and services re-installed.
Being good at de-bloating (as you may very well be to do that in a few minutes!) is an anti-skill that shouldn't have to exist.
Nowadays there are several tools where you tick options and do it in one click.
I mean, 10 minutes is pretty optimistic even for a relatively savy user. It took me somewhere around an hour to find and fix everything. On the other hand, it took me and a bunch of people on the Linux support subreddit around 20 hours of troubleshooting to get Linux into a mostly functional state on my PC, at which point I and everyone else had given up, so...
Its been nearly two years since then though, and given what a nightmare Windows 11 is, I guess I'll have to give it another shot.
10 minutes is enough only for "Oh, that's too difficult, let's pretend that I'm content with Windows as it is"
I just took 2 months customizing Linux. Its that simple
I installed LTSC on a device recently. Very little effort for bloat free Windows.
"But what if I maybe need this one function in this one programme in the next 35 years?"
Wow you are so smart, good for you...ZkhqrD5o...if that is your real name!