this post was submitted on 03 Jul 2025
614 points (99.7% liked)

Progressive Politics

2915 readers
1357 users here now

Welcome to Progressive Politics! A place for news updates and political discussion from a left perspective. Conservatives and centrists are welcome just try and keep it civil :)

(Sidebar still a work in progress post recommendations if you have them such as reading lists)

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 

Words matter.

Always use simple direct language.

  • Help the poor
  • Healthcare for everyone
  • Good treatment at work.

Don't use complex words.

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] plyth@feddit.org 4 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

Assistance implies that it is temporary, that it is help to help themselves.

Welfare implies that it is continuous.

If you have to continually support a part of the population then you have a systemic problem. The correct solution would be to change the system. People who support the continuation of the current system either profit from it or don't see an advantage in a change.

[–] Henson@feddit.dk 5 points 1 hour ago

But it doesn't have to be the same group in the population. Probably a portion is the same but the larger picture is all those you help up again so they can help support the community/country/state, and the price is helping the group that otherwise make the community unsafe so they in large can ... act decently to others and live a life without violence

[–] hansolo@lemmy.today 5 points 3 hours ago

One of the main reasons why USAID was the first part of the government targeted was because of things like this.

If you frame their work as "Assistance to disasters" or other variations, plus the context of it being under 1% of the Federal budget, Americans were find with it. If you call it "giving taxpayer money to foreigners" then it's wildly unpopular.

Which is to say that the lesson is that most people are idiots and have no idea what's going on in the world. Framing a narrative can get the same individual to simultaneously support and hate literally the same thing. It can get people to support policies and actions that directly harm them.

[–] FundMECFSResearch@lemmy.blahaj.zone 8 points 3 hours ago (2 children)

Could you share the source for the graph please?

[–] meliaesc@lemmy.world 2 points 1 hour ago* (last edited 1 hour ago)

Its listed, UChicago NORC. I can only find raw data from NORC from 1973 to 2014 when I search though.

[–] Stern@lemmy.world 7 points 3 hours ago

IIRC "ACA" and "Obamacare" had similar divides. Propaganda is a helluva drug.

[–] BilboBargains@lemmy.world -2 points 2 hours ago (2 children)

If it's the particular words that are the issue you have a bigger problem than just helping the poor, which is a laudable goal. Hups, I just used an obscure word and alienated the dummies.

A favourite cognitive bias is the role of emotions in persuasion and decision making. Arguments are much more persuasive if they make us feel good, regardless of the evidence.

It's interesting to watch an AI reason these issues because we're reasonably sure it doesn't have feelings and should be immune to the pitfalls of having an ego.

[–] AA5B@lemmy.world 1 points 1 hour ago* (last edited 1 hour ago)

I’m not voting for no “laudable” BS. Let’s just talk about goals that are worthy

[–] TonyTonyChopper@mander.xyz 2 points 1 hour ago

AI reason

Any researcher will tell you that these programs do not reason

[–] captainlezbian@lemmy.world 8 points 7 hours ago

Americans, what a bunch of morons

[–] Gates9@sh.itjust.works 6 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

Soon there will be a critical mass of people who have nothing left to lose

[–] AlecSadler@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 5 hours ago

Good. If anything is to change, they must fear for their lives and/or lose their lives.

[–] Tollana1234567@lemmy.today 19 points 9 hours ago* (last edited 9 hours ago) (1 children)

because welfare has been propagandized as used by "lazy and homeless, and poors, and blacks" its usually based on racism as well, the true welfare queens are Conservative voters.

[–] MITM0@lemmy.world 1 points 3 hours ago

Oh this definitely

[–] finitebanjo@lemmy.world 8 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

Fox News: "Write that down. WRITE THAT DOWN!"

[–] HobbitFoot@thelemmy.club 5 points 5 hours ago
[–] sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com 25 points 10 hours ago* (last edited 10 hours ago) (2 children)

Ah, ~40% of Americans are complete fucking morons, that sounds about right.

~40% of Americans also read and write at an elementary school level or worse, but I'm sure that's just a coincidence.

... I think we've found the mythical 'independent, median voter'.

[–] shawn1122@sh.itjust.works 6 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

54% of Americans read at below a grade 6 level.

Welfare is may litterally just mean 'moocher' to an American who has been drowned in propaganda their whole life.

[–] slaneesh_is_right@lemmy.org 1 points 1 hour ago

I read about that and i'm not sure what to make of it. My nephew is in second grade soon, and he can read pretty well. He doesn't like it, because it's still hard for him. But i'm sure in 2 or 3 years he can read well enough to become president of the united states and not be a nazi. So i'm not sure if the reading level is the problem.

[–] explodicle@sh.itjust.works 8 points 10 hours ago* (last edited 10 hours ago) (2 children)

Ah, ~40% of Americans are complete fucking morons, that sounds about right.

You're leaving out the 29% who are against it no matter what you call it.

[–] thevoidzero@lemmy.world 9 points 8 hours ago

Those are evil people, who do not want to help other people. But this 40% are the people who would do the correct thing but they are convinced it's bad and vote against their interest

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] merc@sh.itjust.works 4 points 7 hours ago (1 children)
  • Help the poor
  • Healthcare for everyone
  • Good treatment at work.

I like the idea, but I don't think those are very well phrased.

Take "help the poor". When you say "the poor" it sounds like you're talking about a certain group of people who are born poor and die poor. Often the characterization is "the poor" are that way because of personal failings, like that they're lazy. Nobody wants to think of themselves as poor, and they definitely don't want to consider themselves part of "the poor". So, even poor people are going to have a bad reaction to being told that we should "help the poor".

IMO, a better slogan would be something like "Help people who fall on hard times." because it makes it more clear it's temporary help, and that it's not their fault. I think poverty should be eliminated, and billionaires should be, ahem "eliminated", but I think the average American would be much more likely to accept a social safety net rather than expected to continuously help "the poor".

For "healthcare for everyone", I think the issue is that it sounds like people are imagining high-end luxury healthcare for everyone at no cost. Something like "basic healthcare for everyone" is something more Americans would accept, and is more likely the kind of improvement you could actually get from American voters. Those of us who live in developed countries are used to the idea of "equal healthcare for everyone", but I don't think you could get that past the average American voter.

As for "good treatment at work", what American actually thinks that they'll get good treatment from their employer? Americans are used to thinking that it's a doggy dog world out there, and don't expect loyalty or love from an employer. What's reasonable is fairness, so why not "fair treatment at work" or "fair treatment for workers"?

[–] captainlezbian@lemmy.world 3 points 7 hours ago

Ok but most Americans want us to help the poor. They just wish we'd find a way to give the poor money that wasn't that evil welfare

[–] jjjalljs@ttrpg.network 18 points 11 hours ago (3 children)

People are emotional creatures.

Someone was joking in another thread, but maybe we should seriously consider just taking socialism and calling it, like, americanism.

[–] Sterile_Technique@lemmy.world 12 points 11 hours ago (2 children)

Yeah if you want to pitch socialism to people who don't know what it is, just describe its parts as individual policies. Don't actually use the word "socialism" - that makes the rednecks scurred >_>

[–] merc@sh.itjust.works 3 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

And if you do say socialism, say it along with something they like that isn't scurry. For example, "socialism, like the fire department".

[–] Sterile_Technique@lemmy.world 2 points 7 hours ago

"It's like crowdsourcing, but with community and business supporting resources!"

[–] Azal@pawb.social 2 points 7 hours ago

Yup, look at the overwhelming support citizens have for the Affordable Care Act... but haaaaaaaaaaaate Obamacare.

[–] match@pawb.social 2 points 7 hours ago

american dreamism

[–] cybervseas@lemmy.world 108 points 15 hours ago (2 children)

One of many lasting “gifts” of Reagan.

[–] Reverendender@sh.itjust.works 39 points 15 hours ago (2 children)

We’ve got to get all those ~~welfare queens~~ 25 year old males playing video games back to work! They’re getting a free ride that they don’t deserve. People only have value when they are working!

dont you love the misogyny in that "queens" label? because who makes a better scapegoat than black mothers?

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
[–] shalafi@lemmy.world 31 points 14 hours ago (3 children)

They got me! I have to admit, "welfare" leaves a bad taste in my mouth where "helping the poor" sounds fair enough. I grew up under Reagan, heard the bullshit, know it's bullshit, I get it.

And you know damned well what those words really mean. Welfare = black, poor people = whites. (That's from a GenX perspective.)

[–] dufkm@lemmy.world 9 points 9 hours ago (1 children)

So weird. As a Scandinavian, "welfare" to me means schools, healthcare, elderly care, sick pay, paid parental leave etc., paid for by the shared burden of taxes for the benefit of everyone.

It is a word with entirely positive connotations for me.

[–] captainlezbian@lemmy.world 2 points 7 hours ago

Our famous and revered constitution actually says in its thesis statement that one of the purposes of our government is to provide for the general welfare

[–] chicken@lemmy.dbzer0.com 14 points 12 hours ago (3 children)

To me the negative connotation of "welfare" is, Kafkaesque bureaucracy used to gate access. Actually being on it feels more like you are playing a fucked up game than receiving assistance.

load more comments (3 replies)
[–] Hegar@fedia.io 24 points 14 hours ago

Welfare = black, poor people = whites.

Ding ding ding! We have a winner.

[–] Graphy@lemmy.world 51 points 15 hours ago (21 children)

Propaganda works

I’ve always said that if you really wanted communism or socialism to take off in the states you’re gonna have to call it something else

I also don’t use cis because the machine has already made that a thing people don’t want to be called

load more comments (21 replies)
[–] WatDabney@fedia.io 29 points 14 hours ago (3 children)

"Think of how stupid the average person is, then realize that half of them are stupider than that." - George Carlin

load more comments (3 replies)
load more comments
view more: next ›