Crystals good, fungus bad : risa

[-] thepreciousboar@lemm.ee 45 points 10 months ago

I feel like the problem with Discovery is the same of the warp 10 episode in Voyager. A bunch of people create the most OP way of travelling and barely use it, and don't tell me that the ship is unique and Stamets is the only person in the universe in the following centuries to be able to use it, because that just doesn't make any sense, it's a cheap trick to justify why such an incredible technology has never been mentioned after, not even by a super villain that gives no crap about genetic augmentation.

At least with Voyager you could just write it off as a badly written episode, but you cannot ingore a whole series. Yes even TNG had some magical guy make the ship travel fantaszilion light years, but at least it was out of their control and they could not exploit it.

Also, Trek shows have not been the most consistent ever, but Discovery really went their way on completely distegarding every Star Trek lore existing in the first season which, personal theory, is a major reason for the writers to "get rid" of the ship at the end of season two. Discovery just did not make sense in the universe created by the othee series, to put it where it does no more damage.

[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 9 points 10 months ago

It could have been solved if they just decided that the mycelium network got destroyed. They could have had Control release a weapon that destroyed it or something. I agree, "never talk about this" doesn't make sense when science progresses and someone else could have easily discovered it. And I'm guessing there were plenty of spies from Romulus and other such places that became aware of at least the basics of the spore drive.

I like Discovery a lot, but it was handled badly.

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[-] USSBurritoTruck@startrek.website 5 points 10 months ago

What specific lore has been disregarded?

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[-] queue@lemmy.blahaj.zone 44 points 10 months ago

The only issues I have (currently, until proven wrong) with DIscovery with the Spore Drive and other technological things, is that it didn't seem to have an answer for why the Federation didn't use it later. I do know that in the timeskip season, a log does not mention the use of the s-drive.

But man I can only imagine how pissed Admiral Janeway would have been to find out it exists.

Plus I can't hate a show that has Doug Jones in it. I didn't get into Discovery, but I don't hate it.

[-] ValueSubtracted@startrek.website 35 points 10 months ago

it didn’t seem to have an answer for why the Federation didn’t use it later.

Well, you need to either find and enslave an exotic space tardigrade in order to navigate the network, or illegally splice said tardigrade's DNA into your own.

And even then, navigation is pretty challenging, and can result in accidental time and/or interdimensional travel.

And a malfunction has the potential to destroy all life in the multiverse.

And both ships that had the prototypes installed were lost within about a year.

Take your pick, really.

[-] usernamefactory@lemmy.ca 26 points 10 months ago

For the reward of instantaneous travel, I’m sure the Federation could muddle its way through amending a 100 year old law. The rest of the points don’t seem all that different than the complications we see our heroes regularly encounter exploring the galaxy. And none of them were enough to convince the crew of the Discovery to stop using the spore drive for the rest of the series.

Don’t get me wrong, I love Discovery anyway. Trek is full of miracle technologies that go conveniently forgotten. Janeway has no reason to be miffed given that she sat on an infinite speed drive herself, which had no downside that the doctor wouldn’t have been able to cure after it took them home.

[-] VindictiveJudge@startrek.website 25 points 10 months ago

And a malfunction has the potential to destroy all life in the multiverse.

I didn't like that part at all. An infinite multiverse, which they state in DSC is the case, means that anything with a probability greater than zero is guaranteed. Mathematically, the multiverse should have already been wiped out at some point. It's also a throwaway line meant to increase dramatic tension for all of ten seconds before the scene ends, and an empty threat given that following through would end the show.

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[-] Draegur@lemm.ee 18 points 10 months ago

Yyyyyyeahhh genetic modification has been a BIG NO-NO in trek canon since the 1990s eugenics wars, right...?

[-] ValueSubtracted@startrek.website 7 points 10 months ago

There are allowances for genetic therapies to treat medical conditions, but this probably falls outside of that realm just a bit.

[-] Blue_Morpho@lemmy.world 5 points 10 months ago

That didn't stop Bashir's parents. If regular parents can make it happen it for their below average child, a Dr Noonian Soong type will be all over it.

[-] queue@lemmy.blahaj.zone 6 points 10 months ago

Fair enough. Tho I'm sure Janeway would still consider using Tuvix for that one editing your DNA thing.

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[-] Ganbat@lemmyonline.com 36 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Gotta admit that introducing big fancy transwarp highway in a prequel wasn't the most clever move... Especially considering Voyager...

[+] Stamets@startrek.website 8 points 10 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

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[-] FaeDrifter@midwest.social 23 points 10 months ago

Discovery also had hologram communication technology that I guess was also a secret? Starfleet went back to flatscreens for everything and didn't use holograms again until the 24th century.

If it was just one thing, okay, but there were such numerous inconsistencies, it was like the writers and designers did not care about trek, they were writing a sci-fi show with the trek name slapped on top.

It's totally possible to respect the heritage of old sci-fi - look at The Mandalorian and Andor - maintaining consistency with the old retro sci-fi aesthetic actually elevates them above what a modern redesign would have done.

[-] USSBurritoTruck@startrek.website 7 points 10 months ago

Discovery also had hologram communication technology that I guess was also a secret? Starfleet went back to flatscreens for everything and didn’t use holograms again until the 24th century.

In "The Undiscovered Country" we see the Klingons are watching the Federation President's discussion with Azetbur using a grainy hologram. If they're able to receive a holographic signal, that implies that the Federation is transmitting one. Hell, even in the TOS episode, "Return of the Archons" when confronted with the holographic projection of Landru, Kirk and Spock recognize it for what it is right away, but the things they remark upon are the fact that there's no visible projectors, and Kirk says it's "Beautiful."

I don't think it's too much of a stretch based on what we've see to say that Starfleet decided that holographic projections were too low fidelity compared to viewscreens.

Hell, it even happens again. As you note, they made another attempt at holographic communication in the 24th century, which we see in DS9 the Defiant is kitted out with the new holo-communicator, allowing a fully realized, high fidelity, holodeck quality real time holographic communication. And where else have we seen it? We never see the Enterprise E use that technology; In "Nemesis" Shinzon is able to broadcast a hologram of himself from the Scimitar to Picard's ready room, but he claims it's through the use of his own holo-emitters. We've never seen it in LDecks, PRO, or PIC, all of which take place after DS9.

So yeah, Starfleet went back to flat screens for everything.

[-] marcos@lemmy.world 6 points 10 months ago

You don't have to go very far. There's an episode on Discovery where Pike just goes and say something like "Enough with the problems with holograms! From now on the Enterprise will have only flat screens!"

[-] USSBurritoTruck@startrek.website 5 points 10 months ago

You’re not wrong, but I do feel like that’s an over correction. They might as well have had text flashing at the bottom of the screen which read, “Sorry for the holograms, we didn’t realize how angry some of you would get.”

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[-] VindictiveJudge@startrek.website 6 points 10 months ago

TNG's and VOY's viewscreens are technically holographic, but the effect is applied inconsistently.

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[-] Ganbat@lemmyonline.com 13 points 10 months ago

That's all well and good for the lore, but it doesn't make it feel any less like a way of getting out of the corner they wrote themselves into. It would also probably be little comfort for the version of the Voyager crew that took something like 70 years to get home.

I've enjoyed Discovery. Not as much as other series, but I have enjoyed it. I still think the spore drive is a story that should've been told later in the timeline, though.

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[-] RampantParanoia2365@lemmy.world 29 points 10 months ago

I do seriously hate the spore drive though. The travel time is a huge part of what makes a Star Trek episode.

[-] USSBurritoTruck@startrek.website 30 points 10 months ago

Depends on the episode.

When Quark is abducted from Deep Space 9 in "House of Quark" he's taken clear across the entire Federation and into the Klingon Empire in about a day. And then D'Ghor sends someone to the station to grab Rom and get him back to Qo'noS the next day.

Trek moves at the speed of plot.

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[-] Lauchs@lemmy.world 28 points 10 months ago

Pssssh, I bet these people don't even realize that reversing the quantum polarity in the nacelles is absolutely a hard science solution to whatever problem the enterprise faces.

(Please don't verbally hit me for that sentence.)

[-] ummthatguy@lemmy.world 20 points 10 months ago

It's a perfectly cromulent sentence.

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[-] ummthatguy@lemmy.world 21 points 10 months ago

[-] WanderingCrow@lemmy.ca 18 points 10 months ago

Next you'll tell me the other ships run on space rocks!!!

[+] Stamets@startrek.website 15 points 10 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

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[-] ValueSubtracted@startrek.website 12 points 10 months ago

Q did it? Seems fine

[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 6 points 10 months ago

I think the big difference is that this is Federation science, not super-being using their superpowers. I like Discovery, as you know, but I think they could have done a lot to handle the idea that no one else has ever used the mycelial network again, not even 900 years in the future, better. I think they could, at the very least, have come up with an explanation for why no other non-Federation empire- not the Klingons or the Romulans or the Cardassians or the Borg or anyone else- ever made the same discovery despite being at basically the same technological level or, in the case of the Borg, at an even higher level. They didn't, but I think they should have. Maybe they will in the new season, but I have a feeling they won't. It by no means ruins Discovery for me, but it could have been handled better.

Discovery, in a way, seems to take place in its own universe. All the other new series seem to ignore the Discovery Klingon look, for instance. In Picard, Worf looked like Worf. In SNW, Klingons in the musical episode looked like TNG Klingons.

I realize it would create continuity problems, especially with Pike, but it wouldn't kill me if they decided by the end of the show that it took place in an alternate universe like the Kelvin movies did.

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[-] burgermeister@lemm.ee 13 points 10 months ago

Dilithium=crack rock

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[-] CileTheSane@lemmy.ca 12 points 10 months ago

I don't like Discovery because of the nonsense with the Klingons. I don't know why they changed their look again, but mostly I like to be able to do other things when watching TV, like cleaning up or making food, and hate the subtitles.

I understand if I'm watching a movie and a scene takes place in France with a bunch of Frenchmen speaking in French accents that "in universe" they are actually speaking French and it's being translated to English for my benefit. The long drawn out subtitled scenes just killed the show for me. Give me a dubbed Discovery and I'll happily give it a go.

[-] hardcoreufo@lemmy.world 11 points 10 months ago

Logic Extremists

[-] USSBurritoTruck@startrek.website 5 points 10 months ago

I wouldn't say they're exactly logical....

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