anyone who calls Hamas terrorists would have likely said the same thing about the ANC
You need to analyze why you think there is any universe where militants defending themselves from a genocide are the bad guys and be prepared for an answer you don't want to hear.
Lol the fact that you think this is as simple as “bad guys v good guys” tells me everything I need to know.
Nuance really is dead and buried, huh? Israel can be committing genocide while Hamas…also abuses their power and hurts people? There can be more than one “the bad guys”, you know. I’m an anarchist. I know you communists loooove to write off human rights abuse if it fits your narrative, but I believe that things can be more complicated than that. Hamas may be fighting an equally right-wing authoritarian monster, but that does not suddenly make them good? Like, how is that so hard to understand? Yeah, they’re fighting a far more deadly and effective killing machine with religious fundamentalist ethics. But that does not absolve them.
I agree it would be very nice if we had “good guys v bad guys” but that’s…just not the way the world works.
Hamas is not equally as bad or "authoritarian" as the zionist entity, it's a common apologist method against national liberation movements to equalize them with their oppressor, it gets used on the Vietcong and the FLN and any group that stands up against colonialism and now it's being used on Palestinian resistance.
Hamas…also abuses their power and hurts people?
This sentence alone proves you're speaking out of ignorance, it's almost as if you can't name anything Hamas does and just going off vibes, who are these people that Hamas is hurting? you don't even want to say something like "Hamas wants to kill all the jews" because you're not even sure if they think that or not.
no it doesn't get less complicated then Palestine, one side wants to genocide the other, and the other side has a group that follows the religious beliefs of their people and is fighting back. currently it doesn't matter if the book they hold is green or red (within reason which Hamas has shown itself to be following).
I’m an anarchist.
We can tell.
I know you communists loooove to write off human rights abuse if it fits your narrative,
Oh boy, I hesitate to ask which supposed human rights abuse you are going with. Gulags? Uyghurs?
I agree it would be very nice if we had “good guys v bad guys” but that’s…just not the way the world works.
You're making a strawman, nobody here is claiming it to be that black and white, they just said Hamas are not the bad guys. They did not say they are pure good guys that can do no wrong.
Hamas may be fighting an equally right-wing authoritarian monster
What does authoritarian mean here? Or are we just throwing out buzzwords? Trying to draw some kind of false equivalence between Hamas and Israel is disingenous at best, and actively promoting Israeli propaganda. How would you prefer the Palestinian people resist? Because I swear to god if you say a peaceful protest/march, I will scream.
The fact of the matter is that the issues Marxism has with their fundamentalist beliefs aren't even close to their primary concerns right now. It's the same thing when people go "Oh yeah, well you know Hamas doesn't support gay rights. GOT EM!". Ignoring the fact that they are in a battle for their very existence. Once Palestine has won the basic right to exist we can revisit these issues.
Not to mention that these are people who were, by and large, born and raised in a literal concentration camp. Many of them know no life outside that concentration camp. Honestly none of us have any right to cast judgement on their methods because it is impossible to understand that.
You hit the nail on the head.
Yes, I would prefer something better than Hamas, but it isn’t our job as lower‐class Westerners to prescribe other oppressed people’s protagonists for them, especially when those people are facing an extermination campaign.
The IDF is worse than Hamas. (To put it very, very mildly.) Likewise, pro‐Hamas statements are exceedingly trivial compared to pro‐IDF ones. We shouldn’t waste our time and effort trying to fight a two‐front war; we should be concentrating on doing whatever we can to inconvenience the IDF as much as possible, and then maybe later we can worry about Hamas. I don’t see how this is difficult to understand.
Hamas is a far-right authoritarian fundamentalist group.
All revolutionary movements are fundamentally authoritarian in that they aim to exercise the right of one group over another. This term has no meaningful value and throwing this word around is common for liberal pseudo-intellectuals like you.
Yes, The Islamic Resistance Movement is not ideologically Marxist and does not uphold Class Struggle as primary however the contradictions between Islamic Fundamentalism and Marxism are currently not primary in Palestine.
This insane “I hate X, and Y is the enemy of X…so I must love Y!” shit is fuckin infuriating. Like…THAT is what liberals do. It’s what conservatives do. This kind of one dimensional thinking IS liberalism and it’s such a telling symptom of growing up under the two party American system.
The Islamic Resistance Movement aims for the destruction of the Zionist Entity and is an ally of all Palestinian Resistance Movements. It is an integral part of the Joint command of various Palestinian Resistance Movements fighting against the Zionist Entity. Revolutionaries the world over and all progressive peoples support Hamas in their united struggle along with the Palestinian Masses against the Zionist entity. Your arguments however make it obvious that you yourself have a failed understanding of Revolutionary Proletarian Politics and ironically are another comical product of the Yankee Empire.
Not to mention, Israel LOVES framing this as “Hamas/Israel” because it completely ignores the Palestinian people, (and because Israel funded Hamas…)
Many Oppressive Regimes have applied this tactic historically, to propagandize that they are fighting not the oppressed peoples themselves but an alien group.
Hamas might not be perfect, but as of right now, it's the best-organized force in Palestine. Also, you're the lib for accusing both sides of being bad when one side is committing genocide on the other. Most Palestinians have a positive opinion about hamas btw.
Lol “youre the lib” is hilarious.
Like, I was making the connection because the simplistic thinking of “well, look how bad THE OTHER SIDE IS!” is classic lib/conservative dichotomy type thinking. As if it were either one or the other instead of being an incredibly complicated situation wherein, yes, Israel is the aggressor and they are committing genocide and their government is a right wing nightmare and, yes, of course the oct. 7 attacks didn’t happen in a vacuum and were a response to the endless oppression and slaughter of the Palestinian people and the settler practices of Israel and Hamas is the most organized resistance against that and, yes, the American-backed government before Hamas was awful and Hamas rose up as a response to THAT injustice…and this is literally just covering a fraction of what’s happened in the past, like, 10-15 years.
But to ignore the practices of the right wing fundamentalist group strictly because it’s easier to sort out in your head when you have a “good guy” and a “bad guy,” to reason this all away with “the OTHER side is the REAL Hitlers!” is EXACTLY WHAT ALL YOU WESTERN E-COMMUNISTS CONSTANTLY COMPLAIN ABOUT LIBERALS DOING. Ignoring what’s inconvenient to your worldview to simplify your screeds from your toilets isn’t cool when liberals do it. It’s not cool when you guys do it either. Although it is much more hypocritical because you guys are actually self-aware.
Wtf are you even ranting about. Whats the point of criticizing hamas anyway? Yeah they are not perfect but criticizing them right now makes no sense especially when youre not even from Palestine. To debate whether hamas is good or bad is extremely trivial considering they are the major organization defending themselves against a genocide. You just want to act morally superior.
Stopped reading after "authoritarian"
I thought we had all agreed this shit doesn't exist.
Have you actually bothered to ask a Palestinian person whether they think Hamas is on their side or not, or have you in your infinite cracker wisdom decided how it is? There are many resistance groups in Palestine and beyond, both Marxist and non-Marxist, both Islamic and secular, and Hamas is just one of these groups, and you know what? At the moment they are all united behind the cause of liberation, because it turns out they know how to recognize primary and secondary contradictions, and they are done letting the colonizers and their western "leftist" useful idiots divide them and pit them against each other.
The reality is that at the moment Hamas is the militarily strongest Palestinian resistance group, it is the most numerous and most well armed and it has the undeniable support of the population of Gaza whom they protect and are protected by. Why do you think the Zionist regime is collectively punishing the entirety of Gaza instead of - if Hamas was so unpopular - letting the people of Gaza betray Hamas and deliver them to the Israeli authorities? Why do you think the Zionists are so furious about the fact that Hamas was elected by the people of Gaza?
And do you realize that the Palestinian Authority in the occupied Palestinian West Bank territories - who are nothing more than a tool that the occupation uses to enable its colonization of the West Bank - has much less popular support than Hamas and if they were to run against Hamas in elections tomorrow they would lose? Of course none of this means that we support or endorse the reactionary and religiously conservative ideological position of Hamas. We have our ideology and they have theirs and there is a time and a place for resolving that contradiction, but it is not while a war of national liberation and resistance against apartheid and genocide is being waged.
If Stalin himself could see that it is strategically useful for communists to support national liberation struggles against imperialism and colonialism even when they are led by bourgeois and monarchist forces, and if Mao Zedong and the CPC were mature enough to realize the necessity of joining forces with their bitter nationalist enemies to expel the fascist, imperialist invaders, then why do you refuse to listen to the secular and Marxist-Leninist Palestinian liberation groups like PFLP when they tell you that the tactical alliance with Islamic resistance groups makes sense in the context of their struggle?
Do you know the material and social conditions of Palestine better than them? Maybe show a little humility and try learning from the groups who are actually involved in the struggle over the future of their homeland and their people. I know westerners look down on the people of the global south, particularly on Muslims, and think they need to be taught by the enlightened and civilized Europeans how not to be mindless fanatics and authoritarians, but do try and be a little less of a chauvinist while you're on this platform. Please? If you could tone down the paternalism and Orientalism that would be cool.
The absolute gall to call us usians in such a vat of ignorance is fucking appalling.
You want to see a Palestine without Hamas? Look at the West Bank. There's no Hamas there. What a utopia it is, right?
Good memes, bad memes, unite towards a united front.