this post was submitted on 01 Sep 2025
311 points (94.6% liked)

politics

25623 readers
3821 users here now

Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!

Rules:

  1. Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.

Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.

Example:

  1. Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
  2. Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
  3. No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
  4. Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
  5. No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.

That's all the rules!

Civic Links

Register To Vote

Citizenship Resource Center

Congressional Awards Program

Federal Government Agencies

Library of Congress Legislative Resources

The White House

U.S. House of Representatives

U.S. Senate

Partnered Communities:

News

World News

Business News

Political Discussion

Ask Politics

Military News

Global Politics

Moderate Politics

Progressive Politics

UK Politics

Canadian Politics

Australian Politics

New Zealand Politics

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] A_norny_mousse@feddit.org 86 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (3 children)

Polls are a great way to get the answers you want. I don't know what the pollsters wanted, but to me the question in question is skewed, because one is a state while the other is an organisation.

“In the Israel-Hamas conflict, do you support more Israel or more Hamas?”

So my answer would've been "I support Palestinians in their struggle to have their own country again over Israel which is clearly on an aggressively expansionist rampage."

Since that isn't an option I can refuse to answer the stupid poll, or say I support Hamas.

Shouldn't we explain the nature & history of the struggle instead?


edit: obvious pro/contra Hamas discussion ensues. But IMO it's moot - at least for the foreseeable future - because Israel is so obviously the much bigger monster here, and has been for a long while, and because denying a nation the right to exist simply is not acceptable.

[–] MartianSands@sh.itjust.works 38 points 1 week ago (2 children)

While you're not wrong, I think framing it as "israel-hamas" rather than "israel-palestine" is the least favourable framing available (for a supporter of Palestine) without resorting to really obvious leading questions.

As such, seeing a majority opinion against Israel is encouraging. I'd expect a more nuanced survey to swing more heavily against Israel

[–] A_norny_mousse@feddit.org 16 points 1 week ago (3 children)

framing it as “israel-hamas” rather than “israel-palestine” is the least favourable framing available

Isn't that exactly what I said? Maybe my phrasing is off.

[–] WhatAmLemmy@lemmy.world 19 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

MartinSands point is that even though GenZ probably don't support Hamas murdering civilians, they still consider their struggle as more virtuous than Israel when given no other option; meaning support for Palestine is likely much higher than the poll suggests.

[–] MartianSands@sh.itjust.works 8 points 1 week ago

I thought you were implying that the survey was so unreliable that we couldn't reach any conclusions about support for Israel, or the lack thereof. I was trying to point out that we could (tenuously) reach at least one conclusion.

[–] Maeve@kbin.earth 3 points 1 week ago

You said it right.

[–] BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.today 4 points 1 week ago

It's not that 60% support Hamas, it's that 60% oppose Israel

[–] NatakuNox@lemmy.world 17 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (16 children)

Hamas are just a group of men whos families were blown up by the IDF. not saying their actions after are not evil but I understand their mindset. If the world has condemned you and your people to death simply for existing, what other options do they have?

[–] BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.today 5 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I get that 100%. I have said it about MAGAs in America. I have people very close to me who are members of vulnerable groups that MAGA is targeting. If ANYTHING was to happen to them, I would become very dangerous indeed. That's a bright red line for me.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (15 replies)
[–] BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.today 6 points 1 week ago

Exactly. I don't care if Hamas is wiped out, they're objectively awful, it's the Palestinians getting killed in the crossfire that's the issue.

Of course, they aren't really getting caught in the crossfire, they are the targets. Israel is just using Hamas as an excuse to throw bombs around residential areas, hospitals, and schools.

[–] dirthawker0@lemmy.world 61 points 1 week ago (23 children)

What the hell kind of apples and oranges headline is that. Israel is a country. Hamas is a political party, not the same as Palestine or Palestinians.

[–] SereneSadie@lemmy.myserv.one 8 points 1 week ago

I'd go with terrorist state personally.

load more comments (22 replies)
[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 55 points 1 week ago (3 children)

back Hamas over Israel

Even here, the setup is false. Anyone remotely affiliated with Hamas is little more than a blood smear on the pavement in Gaza at this point. Israelis are torturing general surgeons to death and calling them Hamas. They're butchering babies and calling them Hamas. They're gunning down European photojournalists and calling them Hamas.

There is no "Hamas" left to support. It's just the stamp Israel puts on the body bag.

[–] ArmchairAce1944@discuss.online 15 points 1 week ago (6 children)

The sheer barbarity of Israel is incredible. What is even more incredible is how this is actively fucking over western democracy. Israel is willing to throw down every single freedom in the West (from electoral freedom, to freedom speech, to privacy rights... everything) just so they have a few more settlements built on the graves of people they want dead.

The entire war on terror is Israel's fault. I am going to say it. Modern Islamic fundamentalism is a product of the Cold War, but almost every form of modern international terrorism has its roots in Israeli action and the blowback to that.

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 3 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Israel is willing to throw down every single freedom in the West (from electoral freedom, to freedom speech, to privacy rights… everything) just so they have a few more settlements

It's much more than settlements. It's a Holy War in the very medieval sense. Israelis genuinely really desperately want to rebuild the Third Temple. So much of this Holocaust is rooted in a primevil desire to complete a ritual slaughter of a bull in a magic building that was destroyed thousands of years ago.

[–] ArmchairAce1944@discuss.online 4 points 1 week ago (3 children)

That is also what is freaky.

I remember the halcyon days of 2001 and early 2002 right at the time 9/11 happened. The internet was aflame with all manner of anti-muslim stuff (with many sites and earliest citations of personalities going back to March 2001 for some reason) that labeled the entirety of the Muslim world as so irredeemably ignorant and stuck back in the Middle Ages and trying to bring about an apocalypse or simply acting out of centuries or millennia old hatred and prophecy...

All the while every fucking they were saying was a goddamn projection of their own shit. Zionists at the time claimed they were secular and rooted in the modern world of liberalism and computers while in reality they were far more fundamentalist into their own religion and religious prophecies than any Muslim group.

Also they loved to claim that the entirety of the Muslim world was a carbon copy of rural Taliban controlled Afghanistan when nothing could have been farther than the truth.

Muslim fundamentalism (however you define it) is a major problem. But if I had to put the order of danger that religious fundamentalism faces to the world, it would be on lower orders, compared to American Evangelicalism and Zionist Judaism. As a general rule, the fairly harsh religious views of Saudi Arabia, the gulf states, and Iran are mostly contained there with their governments not really interested in propagating it elsewhere.

Meanwhile you have Americans who literally think they are going to bring out the apocalypse, and people like Eric Prince who want to make an old school style 'free army' like in Medieval Italy and France (that resulted in untold death and misery) and to have modern crusader states where Muslims convert or die.

Fuck them hard.

load more comments (3 replies)
load more comments (5 replies)
[–] ammonium@lemmy.world 8 points 1 week ago

I think Hamas is bigger than ever, Israel has given the doubters 18,000 reasons to join Hamas

[–] frezik@lemmy.blahaj.zone 6 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Anyone remotely affiliated with Hamas is little more than a blood smear on the pavement in Gaza at this point

Imagine if this isn't true. It'd mean Israel managed to bomb literally everything except Hamas.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] Whostosay@sh.itjust.works 44 points 1 week ago (8 children)

Although this question is framed in the shittiest way possible, I would still support Hamas over the IDF because only one of these organizations are guilty of genocide.

Easiest call I've ever made.

[–] BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.today 26 points 1 week ago (3 children)

Israel managed to figure out to turn a vicious terrorist group into the good guys.

[–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml 20 points 1 week ago

Turns out when people break out of a literal concentration camp to fight back against their oppressor they're ~~freedom fighters~~ terrorists

[–] BrianTheeBiscuiteer@lemmy.world 10 points 1 week ago (4 children)

That's the main pitfall of this topic. There doesn't have to be a "good guy" in every conflict. Killing over 1000 Israelis on October 7th, mostly civilians, was unjustified as is keeping the remaining hostages (it's clearly not restraining the IDF). Likewise blocking aid, destroying hospitals, and targeting journalists is completely unjustified. If you ask me who's trying their best to do what's right for their people I would say Hamas.

load more comments (4 replies)
[–] mrdown@lemmy.world 5 points 1 week ago

Hamas terrorism is a direct consequence of 77 years of oppression

load more comments (7 replies)
[–] pjwestin@lemmy.world 32 points 1 week ago (1 children)

They spent so long equating criticism of Israel with being pro-Hamas that they accidentally made the kids pro-Hamas.

[–] drspawndisaster@sh.itjust.works 10 points 1 week ago

Or pro-hamas was the only other option in the survey.

[–] RampantParanoia2365@lemmy.world 27 points 1 week ago

I am American jew. I recently replied to an email from my old synagogue about volunteering in Israel, explaining I have no desire to aid Israel with their Nazi Stockholm manic episode, but to have fun working on the new Holocaust.

[–] pyre@lemmy.world 20 points 1 week ago
[–] 0x0@lemmy.zip 12 points 1 week ago

TL;DR the question they asked 2000 kids was “In the Israel-Hamas conflict, do you support more Israel or more Hamas?”

Its not just gen z.

[–] Pacattack57@lemmy.world 11 points 1 week ago

That’s because Israel is treating it as such. They are treating Palestine and Hamas equally by killing both. If the question was rephrased as do you support Hamas or Palestine the vast majority would side with Palestine. Most people don’t know the difference between the 2.

[–] electric_nan@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Wtf is wrong with the other 40%?

[–] absentbird@lemmy.world 12 points 1 week ago (2 children)

I think there's a lot of people who don't like Israel or Hamas. It's complicated by the fact Hamas is more like a political party than a nation. If it was Israel vs Palestine I think more people would support Palestine.

load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
[–] phoenixz@lemmy.ca 5 points 1 week ago

When people think higher of a volte terrorist organization than a legitimate government, it might be time to put some politicians of said government against a wall. Maybe all of em.

[–] DrunkEngineer@lemmy.world 4 points 1 week ago

The same poll also found RFK Jr had the highest positive approval rating — in fact the only major national leader with net positive rating. So I have serious doubts about the accuracy of the polling.

[–] Randomgal@lemmy.ca 4 points 1 week ago

Top bad they don't live in a democracy lmao

load more comments
view more: next ›