Searching for the Last Lesbian Bars in America (yewtu.be)

submitted 1 year ago by Five@beehaw.org to c/lgbtq_plus@beehaw.org

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San Francisco, New York, Washington DC, and New Orleans are four of the biggest gay party meccas in America, yet the cities' lesbian bars keep shutting down. Why are lesbian bars dying while gay male clubs continue to thrive? Is it because of rising rent prices, the stereotype of lesbians moving in after the first date, the rise of the trans rights movement, or something more complex? Broadly host JD Samson travels across America to find the answer.

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[-] thumbtack@beehaw.org 8 points 1 year ago

great video! not something i’ve ever thought about as bars aren’t exactly my scene (and i’m not a lesbian), but i think this is an important issue to keep in mind with the lesbian community moving forward. i also really liked the last lady’s comment about the similarities between lesbian bars disappearing, and black businesses going under, once both groups became more integrated and accepted in the mainstream.

i don’t feel like they touched enough on why this is happening to the lesbian community so much moreso than the gay community, though maybe i missed it. was that just that lesbians tend to have less hookup culture than gay men?

[-] distractedcactus@beehaw.org 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Thank you for posting this. It's strange and sad and interesting to watch how spaces specifically built for once-maligned people are closing down as those lifestyles become more accepted in the wider culture. It also highlights the continued need for dedicated spaces, both for people who are still not accepted and because the reasons those spaces are useful may have changed over time. There is a new book just released in June (still waiting on my copy) about this same thing - Moby Dyke by Krista Burton .

[-] Evergreen5970@beehaw.org 6 points 1 year ago

I think you have a space between the brackets and parentheses, because I still see the markdown used to make the link and the URL instead of seeing Moby Dyke by Krista Burton as an actual clickable link.

[-] distractedcactus@beehaw.org 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Thank you! I didn't realize there couldn't be a space there. The markdown guide (as seen on my phone) looked like there should be a space.

Edit: Sorry for multiple replies, wefwef kept telling me the reply failed.

[-] Evergreen5970@beehaw.org 2 points 1 year ago

Link works! I really don’t mean this to come off condescending, just saying it because you appreciated my past Markdown fix—there’s an extra space between “Burton” and the period.

The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog[bee](https://beehaw.org)].

will appear as

The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dogbee.

You’re allowed to put things right up against the Markdown, you don’t need to have spaces before and after it. Though as you’ve seen, you can put spaces before and after. Just keep in mind the spaces will display.

[-] distractedcactus@beehaw.org 2 points 1 year ago

Thank you for the info! I'm going to leave the space because I'm too lazy to edit it again, but I appreciate the response. 😄

[-] thumbtack@beehaw.org 5 points 1 year ago

the question moving forward would be, what kinds of community areas specifically can replace these spaces? cafes? i can’t really think of many options even

[-] distractedcactus@beehaw.org 5 points 1 year ago

I think that there needs to be a discussion about what is actually needed at this point in time from a local level. In addition to the wider cultural/societal acceptance of lesbianism (or whatever -ism/-ality is pertinent) over time there were multiple other factors (death by capitalism, changes in management, etc.) that led to the decline of these spaces, and while books and videos like these are great for capturing and highlighting the overall trends I think that the solutions have to be implemented at the community level.

What type of resources and support the lesbian community in my area needs may be different from another city in the same state, likewise it may be different in rural areas vs urban, east/west, north/south - speaking from a USofA perspective.

Personally I see a need today for spaces that can accommodate teens as well as adults, so cafes or community centers could be a good start. Adults have options for dealing with negative behavior and access to places that people under 18/21 do not. There has also been a shrinking of other types of spaces that were open to teens and younger adults over time, places like arcades, non-religious community spaces, etc. that could/did provide places to express things or interact with people that might not be acceptable at school or home.

Even now as an adult I would love somewhere that I could go and feel like I could engage or just be there without having the pressure to buy something to justify my presence. The only place around my area that fits the second criteria is the library but I wouldn't consider it a safe space for meeting or discussing my issues with others.

[-] thumbtack@beehaw.org 4 points 1 year ago

that this would differ from community to community is a good point, and that spaces for teens and adults is important. that’s part of why i brought up cafes, and also because i think they could be a friendly and comfortable environment for people to meet without having the romantic/sexual implications that a bar might.

i think that the introduction of technology and social media has also made it far more difficult than ever for communities or any sort to form in real life, which relates to what you’ve mentioned with the arcades and such closing down as well. there just tends to be less places overall to meet others in your area in general, which i think is also an issue even outside of lesbians or queer spaces specifically.

[-] Evergreen5970@beehaw.org 2 points 1 year ago

Adults have options for dealing with negative behavior and access to places that people under 18/21 do not.

We can sign legal papers without our parents’ permission so I assume that means we can take legal action against harassers while for a minor it’s harder. We can also drink or smoke our problems away. We can also go into bars and solicit sex work, but I’m curious what the other options we have for dealing with negative behavior we have that minors don’t, and what places we can access that minors can’t outside of those.

I don’t want to drink or smoke, and I’m an asexual who has no desire to engage in sex, so I want to know what options my age grants to me that I might actually want to take advantage of.

[-] distractedcactus@beehaw.org 2 points 1 year ago

Apologies for not being as clear as I could have been. My thinking behind that sentence was not about negative responses to other people's negative behavior, but more about how adults in western societies are (most of the time) expected to be able to fully exercise their legal and social rights and have control over their response to actions in today's society. Taking the US as an example, most rights for those under 18 are mediated through their parents, while other things that people might expect those over 18 to be able to do are not actually fully available until 21 or later - like trying to get a rental car before 25.

A (grossly simplified) way to look at this idea is that people who are legally and socially acknowledged to be "adults" can remove themselves from situations that they young cannot. Whatever the social or practical constraints, an adult can cut off or leave a relationship, move to another city or state, get or leave a job, engage medical or social services, etc. for themselves and without mediation through another controlling person. And to your point, legally drink/smoke/have sex/whatever with whoever will (consensually) engage with them.

All of the above is meant to clarify my thoughts behind the previous comment, and may be wrong (or very wrong) depending on any specific person or situation.

I can't really give a good answer to your question, mostly because I'm a neurodivergent misanthrope and my typical solution to most conflict is to go away and not deal with it again (no I am not popular at parties, not that I get invited to them anymore). As someone who came to the knowledge of who I really am as an adult, I don't know what it's like to specifically need resources that I can't get without asking a parent or guardian. I do know how much it sucks to be in a situation where the only realistic solution is "wait and suffer because the other options are worse".

Sorry for not being able to end on a happy note there (see previous paragraph re: misanthropy).

P.S. There is also an argument that most of the above also practically applies for the very old, but that's a whole different wrinkle that I don't really want to get into.

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