I am pretty sure the base state isn't 0K, it's whatever the average temperature around the object is. If you have a universe that is 10^4 K everywhere, then objects will tend to that temperature. Because the earth is actually quite hot compared to 0 K, your fridge very much is constantly using energy to keep the extremely hot outsides from warming the inside. It would get easier if the earth was colder.
Showerthoughts
A "Showerthought" is a simple term used to describe the thoughts that pop into your head while you're doing everyday things like taking a shower, driving, or just daydreaming. The most popular seem to be lighthearted clever little truths, hidden in daily life.
Here are some examples to inspire your own showerthoughts:
- Both “200” and “160” are 2 minutes in microwave math
- When you’re a kid, you don’t realize you’re also watching your mom and dad grow up.
- More dreams have been destroyed by alarm clocks than anything else
Rules
- All posts must be showerthoughts
- The entire showerthought must be in the title
- No politics
- If your topic is in a grey area, please phrase it to emphasize the fascinating aspects, not the dramatic aspects. You can do this by avoiding overly politicized terms such as "capitalism" and "communism". If you must make comparisons, you can say something is different without saying something is better/worse.
- A good place for politics is c/politicaldiscussion
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- Adhere to Lemmy's Code of Conduct and the TOS
If you made it this far, showerthoughts is accepting new mods. This community is generally tame so its not a lot of work, but having a few more mods would help reports get addressed a little sooner.
Whats it like to be a mod? Reports just show up as messages in your Lemmy inbox, and if a different mod has already addressed the report, the message goes away and you never worry about it.
Yes, over a long enough timeline this is true. Usually people are interested in cooling things sooner than the death of the Sun.
I got time
Depending on how cold you want it, the heat death if the universe is just another 10^101 years away ¯_(ツ)_/¯
So faster than a microwave? Works for me
Neat trick for when you want to cool something for free:
Just wait until the heat death of the universe.
“Utility companies hate this one trick!”
I feel like this is technically true, but in reality it only works like this in the void of space.
The energy I'm spending is to counter the molecule vibration transfer that's being done (against my food's will) by the sun and everything else in the space around my fridge.
I am ready for some physicist to pop out of the tall grass and explain how wrong I am.
You're not wrong in this context.
If ambient temperature was say...21 C, then it'd take no energy to keep things that cold.
So in space, once you do cool something down enough, and place it far from any stars, it'll stay cold for free.
No, it is not, your premise is false (in our real world. TM.) but your reasoning is good.
Energy does not vanish, you need a process to remove energy of a system.
Think in the planets orbiting the sun or the energy contained in a damm with millions liters of water. The energy is not dissipating itself, it is constant, forever.
So as long as the system is not disturbed, keeping the system in the same state is energy free because you only need energy to alter the system. Even of the energy distributions is not evenly balanced through it.
Keeping anything at any temperature different than whatever it's interacting with takes energy. Hot or cold.
Why would you assume the natural state of a 'object' is absolute zero?
Because then it doesnt move and there is no energy it can give to the surrouding. Actually there is, stored in molecular bounds. But no molecular movement, just atoms I guess
So you propose that all matter naturally has zero volume because its at absolute zero by nature.
Objects at zero Kelvin are not zero Volume?
I guess my physics books were wrong then. Nah.
Atoms are surprisingly bad at removing heat. Being hit with slower atoms and transferring that energy ((like newton's cradle with mismatched swings opposing each other) transfers energy much, much faster than what happens naturally in the vacuum of space. Most spacecraft have more of issue with overheating than freezing. The rate at which radiation is emitted is very low when you get to sub-human temperatures. There's also tons of heat sources around us in space, so the last few degrees are so, so hard to shed.
Keeping a fridge stocked increases the thermal capacity of the coldness. Air falls out quickly and is subject to rapid temperature change when the door is open. Keeping a bunch of solid/sealed masses in there will bank the lack of heat. You'll likely lose more air and the falling not-so-cool air will impart heat into your 24 pack of beer, but you'll have a bunch of distirbuted cold objects to re-cool the air once the door is closed instead of relying on air circulation alone. Instead of raising the air temp by, say, 5 degrees once settled, it'll only go up maybe 2 degrees - much better for food storage. But the fridge will still have to re-cool those beers, too.
"Spacecraft have more of an issue with overheating than freezing" is a really really ~~cool~~hot fact. Do you have an easy source, maybe somewhere that discusses techniques/history?
I'd have to look for specific discussions, but I have some examples. The wiki page covers a lot. Spacewalk/moonwalk suits are white to reflect the sun's heat (the orange suits are for takeoff/landing, a sin, terrestrial recovery). That shiny silver or gold foul appearance of classic space craft from the 60s/70s is for heat reflection. The JWST is on like 4 layers of wafers (they look like a sail) to isolate it from the sun's heat. Quite visibly in depictions, the scrunched panels on the ISS are actually radiators.
There's a misconception about space and heat. It didn't originate, but I'm Sur eit was propogated by the 00s space movie that had an astronaut pop off their helmet and freeze. Mission to Mars? Red Planet? Space cowboys? Yes, you probably would freeze upon exposure to space, but not because it's cold. The sudden drop in pressure would vaporized a tremendous amount of water from you. Jus like how sweat works, the evaporative cooling would drop your skin temperature greatly.
A side topic is that there's narrow frequency range of radiation that is neither emitted by the sun nor reflected by the atmosphere. It's in the near if rated range. There's a NighthawkInLight video that develops a paint that resonates in this "window" to actually cool it below ambient air temperature. There's always a control piece for science's sake.
This is less of a source and more like a compilation of resources, but for anything spacecraft related I can always recommend Atomic Rockets. For this specifically, the page on Heat Radiators.
Thank you! ( ~~I think the second link lost a 'p' at the end.~~ Fixed!)
Edited my comment to fix, thanks!
It's good that you think about this stuff. It is a sign of an inquisitive mind. And you are so close to the truth.
But... You literally have the ability to look this stuff up in seconds.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_transfer https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_of_energy
It's often good to have a conversation on the topic as well as the basic info.
Well, "fill your fridge/freezer so there's less cold air inside that can be replaced by warm air when opening it, then it does need less energy to cool down again after opening" is true, but the reasoning… No isolation is perfect (and certainly not that of affordable household fridges) so there'll always be warmth getting in that has to be moved out again. Cooling only doesn't require energy if surrounded by equal coolness.
Cooling only doesn't require energy if surrounded by equal coolness.
Okay I guess that is true. Heating also doesnt require energy if the surrounding is just as hot.
Moving stuff takes energy, and you either need to focus heat or disperse it.
But keeping things cool itself doesnt need any energy
My electric bill disproves this statement. Otherwise, why would we need electrical devices that remove heat from things?
Ugly physics
We figured out the issue: moving energy against a naturally occuring gradient. Like heat away from a cold area, or focussing heat somewhere where the surrounding is cool