769
submitted 11 months ago by btp@kbin.social to c/technology@lemmy.world

The Foundation supports challenges to laws in Texas and Florida that jeopardize Wikipedia's community-led governance model and the right to freedom of expression.

An amicus brief, also known as a “friend-of-the-court” brief, is a document filed by individuals or organizations who are not part of a lawsuit, but who have an interest in the outcome of the case and want to raise awareness about their concerns. The Wikimedia Foundation’s amicus brief calls upon the Supreme Court to strike down laws passed in 2021 by Texas and Florida state legislatures. Texas House Bill 20 and Florida Senate Bill 7072 prohibit website operators from banning users or removing speech and content based on the viewpoints and opinions of the users in question.

“These laws expose residents of Florida and Texas who edit Wikipedia to lawsuits by people who disagree with their work,” said Stephen LaPorte, General Counsel for the Wikimedia Foundation. “For over twenty years, a community of volunteers from around the world have designed, debated, and deployed a range of content moderation policies to ensure the information on Wikipedia is reliable and neutral. We urge the Supreme Court to rule in favor of NetChoice to protect Wikipedia’s unique model of community-led governance, as well as the free expression rights of the encyclopedia’s dedicated editors.”

“The quality of Wikipedia as an online encyclopedia depends entirely on the ability of volunteers to develop and enforce nuanced rules for well-sourced, encyclopedic content,” said Rebecca MacKinnon, Vice President of Global Advocacy at the Wikimedia Foundation. “Without the discretion to make editorial decisions in line with established policies around verifiability and neutrality, Wikipedia would be overwhelmed with opinions, conspiracies, and irrelevant information that would jeopardize the project’s reason for existing.”

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[-] Deceptichum@kbin.social 149 points 11 months ago

laws passed in 2021 by Texas and Florida state legislatures. Texas House Bill 20 and Florida Senate Bill 7072 prohibit website operators from banning users or removing speech and content based on the viewpoints and opinions of the users in question

What the absolute fuck America.

[-] kautau@lemmy.world 82 points 11 months ago

“We want small government!”

“But also big government in cases where our hate speech might be at stake!”

[-] NateNate60@lemmy.world 42 points 11 months ago

Texas and Florida are pretty well-known as the shitholes of America. Run by populist idiots who cater to the uninformed and gullible voter. I'm sure there are places like that in every country.

[-] SomethingBurger@jlai.lu 17 points 11 months ago

Places like that in other countries usually don't have as much power as US States do. Other countries are better designed and don't have practically independent sub-countries inside them with their own laws.

[-] Furball@sh.itjust.works 17 points 11 months ago

Federalism can also be a very good thing to allow autonomy for certain groups within a country, though. I wouldn’t say Unitarianism is a better design by default.

load more comments (13 replies)
[-] bitcrafter@programming.dev 7 points 11 months ago

If you are going to compare the United States to other political entities, I think that the better thing to compare it to is the European Union rather than other countries, because like the EU the US was formed from the union of sovereign member states and that is why it is designed the way that it is (for better or worse).

Given that, I have an honest question asked out of ignorance: Does the EU have more power over its member states than the United States does? (I am not super-familiar with it, so the answer may very well be yes.)

[-] SomethingBurger@jlai.lu 5 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

It has less. The EU is mostly an economic union. It can regulate trade and consumer rights, but not much else. Countries must adhere to the European Declaration of Human Rights and some other conditions to join the Union (like being a democracy or having a stable economy), but the EU cannot enforce these rules after the fact; see Hungary which became a near-dictatorship after joining, or France which is regularly sentenced for human rights violations and simply pays the fine instead of changing anything.

EU laws cannot contradict a country's constitution. If they clash, the country must - by EU rules - change its constitution, but not doing so carries almost no consequence, and the country can ignore the law; however, if a court case around said law makes it to the EU Court of Justice, it will be judged using EU laws.

Also, the EU doesn't have an army or a police force, so rebellious member states can only be economically sanctioned into compliance, which almost never happens to any serious degree, as it would cause too much political trouble within the union.

load more comments (1 replies)
[-] Drusas@kbin.social 18 points 11 months ago

Feels like we're in a death spiral.

load more comments (1 replies)
[-] nutsack@lemmy.world 12 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

The wording of this law makes no sense to me. You could apply it to almost anything

load more comments (1 replies)
[-] Rolder@reddthat.com 9 points 11 months ago

How would it work if, say, a website run out of California or even another country violated this law

[-] Rivalarrival@lemmy.today 18 points 11 months ago

Pretty much the same way that Europe's GDPR works: they fine the business operations within the covered jurisdiction. If you don't do business in their jurisdiction, you are perfectly free to tell them to shove their regulation up their ass.

Wikimedia collects donations from Texans. If these laws survive a legal challenge, Wikimedia would either have to stop collecting donations from Texas or comply with Texas law.

[-] captainlezbian@lemmy.world 5 points 11 months ago

They want to normalize calls for executing undesirables

load more comments (2 replies)
[-] HonorIsDead@lemmy.world 114 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Wikipedia is one of the most impressive collective creations of the modern world. One day corrupt politicians will ruin it. They're one of the organizations I donate to every year in my futile hope they preserve it as long as possible. Articles like this just reinforces the need to vote for people who aren't actually cartoon villains. May not vote for SC but we do for who appoints them.

[-] triptrapper@lemmy.world 44 points 11 months ago

I donate frequently also. It pains me that people poke fun at Wikimedia or Jimmy Wales for their constant fundraising. It's such a ubiquitous tool, it's a miracle that it's free.

load more comments (14 replies)
[-] linearchaos@lemmy.world 9 points 11 months ago

It's entirely possible to get it out of their reach. It needs to be pushed out to the point of the Pirate Bay.

It's just begging for their primary mechanism to be decentralized. They could severely reduce their operating expenses if they went to community hosting.

DHT, chunks of it hosted everywhere. New content and corrections come down as deltas. There are already copies of it on IPFS that are relatively robust, as robust as IPFS can be anyway.

load more comments (1 replies)
[-] Buttons@programming.dev 71 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

I've said this before. They are targeting the wrong layer!

They want to force websites to be neutral while allowing the internet providers to block and shape traffic however they want.

Force ISPs to allow access to all websites - good

Force ISPs to allow anyone to host a website at home - good

Force AWS to allow anyone to pay for and host websites on their infrastructure - probably good, but we're approaching the line

Force websites to host content they don't want to host - bad

[-] lolcatnip@reddthat.com 40 points 11 months ago

It's almost like they're just wrong about everything.

[-] isVeryLoud@lemmy.ca 20 points 11 months ago

It's not about being right or wrong, they know what they're doing. Quit giving them the benefit of the doubt.

They want to derail discourse so they can apply their politically expedient talking points without competition or questioning.

[-] lolcatnip@reddthat.com 7 points 11 months ago

Wrong as in wrong-headed. They want to make everything worse.

[-] nutsack@lemmy.world 39 points 11 months ago

I wish they would move their base of operations to a country with a more stable government and just ignore weird laws like this.

[-] p1mrx@sh.itjust.works 22 points 11 months ago

These laws expose residents of Florida and Texas who edit Wikipedia to lawsuits by people who disagree with their work

If that quote it accurate, then it doesn't matter where Wikipedia itself is based.

[-] roofuskit@lemmy.world 20 points 11 months ago

Honestly moving to the EU is probably their best bet. But laws respecting speech are not nearly as liberal.

[-] ilmagico@lemmy.world 8 points 11 months ago

But laws respecting speech are not nearly as liberal.

Then I'm not sure if it would be their best bet ... Wikipedia relies on free speech on many levels.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (4 replies)
[-] Burn_The_Right@lemmy.world 34 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

They say the multiverse contains every possible version of existence. They are wrong. There is no version of existence in which our illegitimate "supreme" court sides with any entity that exists to provide honest education to the public. As long as conservatives have infested the court (and our nation), it simply cannot happen.

[-] Kiosade@lemmy.ca 14 points 11 months ago

Well yeah they said every POSSIBLE version. If it’s not possible, it wouldn’t exist in the multiverse.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (3 replies)
[-] jaybone@lemmy.world 31 points 11 months ago

Can Wikipedia simply not allow users from Texas or Florida? I.e. not operate in that jurisdiction?

[-] Bread@sh.itjust.works 56 points 11 months ago

Yes, but that kinda defeats the point of an open knowledge library for all. This is a problem that should be fixed with legislation and not artificial blocking. We shouldn't punish the unfortunate for being stuck with the stupid.

[-] BrianTheeBiscuiteer@lemmy.world 10 points 11 months ago

We shouldn't punish the unfortunate for being stuck with the stupid.

I'm a Texan and over 7 mil didn't vote in the last gubernatorial election. Block us. It'll piss off high school and college students royally and they're the blocks we need voting.

[-] MisterFrog@lemmy.world 6 points 11 months ago

Cheers for this (and my condolences), as much as it sucks to block Texas, it'd be much worse to let Texas ruin Wikipedia for the rest of the world.

[-] Bread@sh.itjust.works 5 points 11 months ago

History has taught us restricting access to knowledge never goes well. It will piss some people off, sure. Enough to make a difference? Can't say, most people are indifferent. As long as they get AN answer, that's all they care about. Not necessarily the correct one.

[-] KmlSlmk64@lemmy.world 6 points 11 months ago

What would happen, if they ignored the laws and did not geoblock Texas and Florida, just say they don't operate there, but not restrict the users and still operate the way they operated until now?

[-] Bread@sh.itjust.works 8 points 11 months ago

Fines I would assume. Lawsuits even.

load more comments (9 replies)
[-] jaybone@lemmy.world 6 points 11 months ago

I feel like they should see the consequences of their actions. The politicians might learn that the public won’t put up with this shit, rather than have it forced upon them by a higher court so they can continue to play the victim card.

[-] Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world 8 points 11 months ago

Not everyone in Florida and Texas voted for the fascists and not everyone who wanted to vote against them were able to.

Punishing those who are not complicit is injust, not to mention excellent campaign fodder for the fascists.

[-] Dark_Arc@social.packetloss.gg 6 points 11 months ago

Honestly... I get your point and I know people in Texas that don't agree with Texas politics. However, the largest party in the county is the party of "I don't vote." If you actually manage to wake up 10%... 20%... 30%... of those people, plus all the Republican voters that didn't want it, plus all the Democrats that didn't want it and/or got lazy with their state votes... Well we might actually see major change in representation from Texas.

load more comments (8 replies)
[-] jaybone@lemmy.world 6 points 11 months ago

I understand your point. My intention isn’t so much to “punish” as to have them see the consequences of their policies. Which should drive a sane voting public against them once they really see first hand the consequences. If SCOTUS or someone hands down a ruling to counter them, then they just play the victim card, and their supporters are emboldened.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (2 replies)
[-] AA5B@lemmy.world 23 points 11 months ago

Goddammit, now I’m going to have to donate, arent i

load more comments (1 replies)
[-] Uranium3006@kbin.social 22 points 11 months ago

these fascist laws are fucking insane. we need to stop these state governments now!

[-] SeaJ@lemm.ee 10 points 11 months ago

I feel like those laws would affect all social media platforms and directly go against Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act.

[-] mlg@lemmy.world 10 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

I think people would be surprised just how often the Wikipedia mods have to remind people that the government or court of any nation does not affect the facts of an event or change the reporting of media.

There's a cesspool of a changes thread for the Gujarat Massacre page because every BJP supporter showed up deleting entire swaths of paragraphs because the Supreme Court of India cleared Modi of any involvement, so obviously that means he's innocent and the event in question never happened.

[-] rhythmisaprancer@kbin.social 8 points 11 months ago

Gosh this seems so relevant to the Wikipedia highway discussion. Maybe there cannot be flexibility in their rules when they are facing this type of threat.

load more comments
view more: next ›
this post was submitted on 09 Dec 2023
769 points (99.4% liked)

Technology

59205 readers
2842 users here now

This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.


Our Rules


  1. Follow the lemmy.world rules.
  2. Only tech related content.
  3. Be excellent to each another!
  4. Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
  5. Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
  6. Politics threads may be removed.
  7. No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
  8. Only approved bots from the list below, to ask if your bot can be added please contact us.
  9. Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed

Approved Bots


founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS