Given many new handhelds coming on the scene and general disinterest of Microsoft to support the market, do you think SteamOS will take place of default OS the same way Android did on phones some time ago?
Fuck I hope so
For the future of PC gaming I sure as hell hope so. People stick to and defend Windows as their go-to 'till the bitter end, likely not realizing Linux could be everything their Windows machine is and there is a real industry player with a lot of money making this reality right now. If we just let it.
If we would just give Linux the critical mass, we could free the last locked aspect of PC gaming, the OS itself. That way we would no longer be at the whims of Microsoft's decisions because let's face it, even Windows users hate the shit they do.
Linux, currently, cannot handle everything Windows can unfortunately. Windows also has a massive software support advantage. Valve are in the best place to try and give Linux to the masses, but that's a lot of work and it won't have much return for them. Windows getting worse is the way Linux will get more market share, but most people are not power users and will probably just use Windows anyway as it 'just works'.
The reason Valve is so heavily investing in Linux is that they know that Microsoft could - in theory - flip a switch and kill their business, especially because Microsoft themselves is a competitor to Valve in the form of Xbox and Gamepass.
It's a defensive tactic, not a money-making venture.
And realistically Microsoft has a very good moment coming up in the next few years to effectively kill Steam: Valve only delivers pre-compiled files and does not have access to source code. Therefore Valve is not only stuck with a “Windows-like environment”, they are also shackled to x86. With Apple’s M-processors reigning supreme in the laptop space with insane values for performance-to-powerdraw (and in turn heat radiation and cooling requirements), the days of x86-by-default laptops are probably numbered and more manufacturers may want to switch to ARM, to avoid unfavorable comparisons to MacBooks. With Windows for ARM Microsoft can finally kill of all traces of Win32 in WinRT, as they tried for years and force everyone to use UWP-apps from the store exclusively on ARM. Apple does leave apps behind, when updating their operating systems on a regular basis, a similar move by Microsoft wouldn’t look totally unreasonable. The switch could even happen gradually, like Apple’s Rosetta translation layer, which runs x86 apps on arm great right now, but I don’t think it will be maintained forever and support for x86 apps on macOS will end one day. Microsoft could do the same for Windows for ARM. If this happens Valve will probably have the opportunity to install games as UWP-apps, but their back catalog of Win32 .exes becomes effectively worthless. But if Win32 .exes run great through some translation layer on linux, valve can continue to sell and support their back catalog on current hardware.
Therefore Valve is not only stuck with a “Windows-like environment”, they are also shackled to x86.
Why are they shackled to anything? They will sell whatever the market supports. Linux doesn't care what CPU it runs on and software can be compiled for anything. Valve isn't stuck with anything, all of their stuff is virtual.
If we move to ARM, MIPS or whatever the flavour of the day will be, they'll just follow the trend.
OTOH, Microsoft has to deal with an insane amount of legacy software in the corporate space. That's probably the main reason Windows still sucks so much (although it did manage to get much better) when Mac OS managed to make a clean cut and start over.
Windows, currently, cannot handle everything Linux can. Linux also has a massive software support advantage, running on vastly more hardware and architectures than Windows does.
Linux has already been given to the masses. People use it every day in super user friendly ways; they just don't realize they're using Linux.
The only reason people use Windows is because they don't choose it. Imagine if every PC sold had a Linux option and a Windows option that cost an extra $100. What do you think people would buy?
The same hardware running Linux will easily outperform Windows (especially at the most common end user tasks like web browsing) by a long shot. In a few days NTFS turns 30 years old FFS (LOL).
Any given hardware accessory will "just work" when plugged in to a Linux PC but Windows will require a special driver that you have to go out and find on your own at the vendor's website that will be bloated AF. It'll also reinstall it if you change the USB port LOL.
I get it you like Linux, so do I. And I just have yet to have a smooth experience with it as a desktop and for games. We talking about the average gaming market here, nothing more, Linux is obviously very powerful and is the most used OS outside of desktops.
Most users have Nvidia cards that still do not play nicely with a lot of Linux setups, although that seems to be coming around now. Linux is a very customisable platform and it can be a lot better than Windows if you spend the time tweaking every aspect of it, but you are kidding yourself if you think Linux is better OOTB than Windows for most users. It's fine for us to stick our heads into wikis and play around in the terminal, but most people don't want to bother with all that.
I hope Linux does get more adoption so that support is further improved and I hope it reaches that tipping point where most people can pick up for their everyday machines.
The only reason people use Windows is because they don’t choose it. Imagine if every PC sold had a Linux option and a Windows option that cost an extra $100. What do you think people would buy?
I think they would buy windows, because the software they need to do their job only runs on windows.
Uh, no. I tried Linux (Mint). I hated it. It doesn't even have a damn colorblind mode... The best you can hope for is a goofy workaround with some app that's meant for devs testing colorblind modes, and that may or may not even work. Colorblind mode is a rock bottom basic accessibility feature, especially in 2023, and the most highly recommended distro for people coming from Windows doesn't even have that.
And it rather shows that average or non-Linux-nerd users, and what they need from their OS, are not a priority at all, which means the system will never be friendly or appealing to them until and unless that changes.
I also personally hated the way it wanted me to install everything from a launcher, vs downloading exe's from their owners websites that have a lot more info than the generic Linux launcher does.
I hated all the crashes, the requirement for tinkering at random times when I really just needed my PC to work reliably, and the way so many people in the Linux community look down on and/or insult everyone who asks for help with anything or has any gripe about Linux (thus assuring helpful feedback from average users won't be reporter or heard, their problems won't be fixed, and confusing UI will remain confusing and bogged down in jargon).
Linus Tech did a good youtube series on what Linux is like to encounter as a newbie. He had problems. When even one of the most popular tech/PC youtubers has problems right out the gate, how can you expect it to work for everyone else?
I want it to get better and become a real conpetitor to Windows, but it just flat out isn't yet except for specific applications like servers, and pretending it is only insures it won't ever be. The culture around it is holding it back.
Tl;dr: there are actually quite a lot of people like me who are aware of Linux and choose Windows or Mac instead.
I specifically phrased it "could be" as people tend to believe there are 3 preferences, Mac, Linux and Windows. Linux is not one user experience, it could work exactly like your favorite OS. In the face of SteamOS already being a viable option for the average gamer as Valve is basically strong arming it to be, on Steam Deck you're not exactly doing PC gaming any good deliberately installing Windows on it. SteamOS just works.
I also think you're very misguided in thinking it won't have any return to Valve. Microsoft has to be looking at Google Play Store and whatever the Apple Store is called with a lot of envy with how they've managed to lock the entire ecosystem under their stores. This is the end result for Windows as well and its likely anti-competetive clauses are a very bad sign for a company like Valve. Looking back I'm actually impressed just how far back Valve saw this happening. Decoupling PC gaming in its entirety from Microsoft's vendor lock-ins is in the best interest of all of the companies in the gaming industry, but it takes a rich private company like Valve to start doing the hard work for long term benefits instead of always chasing the short term profits.
Even if tomorrow Microsoft launched something that pulled ahead of SteamOS, it would still be in the gamers' best interest to stick with the open platform. With a consistent, large userbase on an open platform it will eventually eclipse anything Microsoft could ever muster.
Linux, currently, cannot handle everything Windows can unfortunately.
I mean it could, companies just don't port their software because there's not enough market share to justify it. And there's not enough market share because the software isn't there. and the software isn't there....
IMO Steam OS is the "Windows" for handhelds. Sure there will be lots of variants of Linux with custom skins (hell even Windows itself). However, I think Steam OS has already established itself as a comfortable default for most people due to how optimized the UI is for handhelds and the fact it works out of the box for most PC games without any tinkering 🙂
SteamOS's UI is incredible. It's not always easy for a UI to be feature rich while also being intuitive and easy to use, but Valve did a wonderful job. I love pulling up the Quick Menu to check the battery and time or tweak a setting without needing to pause the game or go back to the Home Menu.
I'd love to see the return of Steam Machines. I loved the concept back in 2014 but Linux gaming absolutely wasn't ready back then. A first party Valve Steam Machine could be a great entry point for many potential new PC gamers.
I'd be curious what kind of APU they'd cook up for a Steam Machine because putting in a full GPU isnt economically viable right now.
I'd possibly argue a full GPU could be detrimental. Maybe best to aim for Steam Deck performance in a home console but with the potential for a GPU installation later on. Obviously being a home console would allow for a more power hungry but performamt APU. Maybe they could attain Series S performance whilst being a much more open platform.
I agree. Full GPU doesn't seem likely. It'd be great if AMD and Valve could work together to make a decent desktop APU without the usual compromises, maybe one with M2 like performance. Even better if they could later repurpose a variation of that design to make consumer chips that fit into the AM5 socket.
Maybe Valve can also look into shared memory designs where its one unified pool for both CPU and GPU. Pretty sure Linux has support for that.
SteamOS has been out on Steam Deck for 18 months, but still no general release in sight. I wouldn't hold my breath. I think we'll just have to continue to make do with the likes of ChimeraOS/Nobara.
Is there some specific feature that SteamOS brings to the table that people are looking for? So far as I know, a stripped down installation Debian or Ubuntu (Valve likes to base their packages off of Ubuntu) with an Xserver script that directly launches steam in big picture mode ought to create roundabout the same experience I would think.
SteamOS 2.x was based on debian, but that hasn't been updated in years. The Steam Deck launched with SteamOS 3, which is actually built on top of arch and is much more akin to Manjaro. As for your question, it's mostly the "game mode", which uses IIRC Wayland and wraps games inside gamescope which provides a bit more control in the form of controlling frame rate, resolution, etc externally, but regardless, that can and has been achieved in custom distros. I think the main appeal of SteamOS honestly is the package of an immutable OS optimized for running games on steam. It prevents non-linux users from breaking things and tries to make it feel more like a "console" with a "desktop mode" (KDE Plasma) and "app store" (ala flatpaks). I've toyed with the idea of running it or similar on my gaming PC but always run into the difficulty of Nvidia drivers on Linux.
I had no idea they switched distros. Or ran Wayland for that matter! Truly it's the future. But that's a good point, being able to say on the "box" that is specifically runs SteamOS certainly brings about a level of consumer and investor assurance.
As far as the nvidia drivers go. Only advice I can offer is that I've never had any sort of auto install, package based install, or any sidestepping of the default installation of the driver work for me. It's always borked. The only reliable method I've found is the old school drop into the line terminal, shutdown all GUI, and running the nvidia provided install script (which sucks, I know).
Yeah, I've gotten Nvidia drivers working, but always with issues in performance or things like Wayland not working and I eventually decide "that was fun to play around with, back to Windows". Specifically the whole immutable OS thing for me is nice too. Linux is my OS of choice for development work, but it's so easy to screw things up when trying to make games work nicely and my ideal "it just works" gaming machine can ignore the OS entirely (looking at you, Windows random forced reboots or virus scans), so having big single updates rather than individual packages and no risk of trying to get WINE etc up and running breaking something with the OS is nice. Not to mention, it's much harder for a small child to brick it than a normal Linux distro or even Windows for that matter. Fedora Kinonite is on my radar for a future distro because of this, I just haven't decided if I prefer the Fedora ecosystem over Ubuntu or Manjaro.
True. There is an unofficial release - HoloIso - which uses Valves packages but is not quite complete. Also manufacturers may be able to get access as Valve previously has been keen on getting other manufacturers to buy into it's hardware attempts (e.g. Steam PCs previously, and VR now) but I'd expect the manufacturers to be making a big deal of it if they were launching a SteamOS handheld. It seems Valve want to keep exclusivity on Steam Deck for now (which makes some sense given how successful it's been)
I at least suspect there will be a community porting some variant of SteamOS to the more popular handhelds.
ChimeraOS already works on pretty much anything.
"Works" to varying degrees. It usually needs to be tailored to the hardware.
It would be a good thing. Gaming on windows has been a shit experience since everything after windows 7. I don't want to have to manually(or scriptedly) remove candy crush installer icons among other bloat shit every time I install the os just for a basic clean experience that still spies in me.
What are these many new handhelds you speak of
Ayaneo 2 is one apparently. ROG Ally is one. And there are at least 8 more: https://retrododo.com/best-handheld-gaming-pcs/
They are way more powerful but makes less use of the power. Also way more expensive most of the time. Valve actually sells the Deck at a loss and hope to get it back on games. It's currently the best value for money.
Valve actually sells the Deck at a loss and hope to get it back on games.
this was probably true for the first months but the hardware parts of the steam deck got cheaper over time in particular any flash chips (RAM/SSD) aswell as the older AMD APU
probably the reason why Valve discounts it up to 20% in sales sometimes
Probably not while ARM handhelds are so popular. I think that it's a good choice for intel and AMD for now, though.
This is a weird comment to me, SteamOS could have an ARM build, Valve would just need to release a ARM build of their distro (and Steam for Linux).
There's definitely ARM for lots Linux software and distros, so assuming Valve hasn't done anything particularly weird, aside from the build infrastructure, that's probably not even that big of a job.
They would then also “just” need to develop and ship an x86 to arm translation layer, like Rosetta 2.
Steam OS is awesome. I consider myself a tech savvy person, yet I never felt the need to tinker with my Steam Deck to run retro games or emulate stuff since I have it (1+ year)
The library of games running natively or with minimal controller changes is so big I will probably not run out of games and Im playing more than ever.
I thought it would but it's been over a year and still no one is shipping with it.
ETA Prime always referring to "Steam Deck OS" and claiming that's the name it's widely known by is so cringe.
I like it, if only because theres a lack of OS's that boot with controller support.
I hope its form factor gets closer to the switch so its more mixed mode handheld/console.
Only possible if all handheld machines have transparent hardware designs, i.e., all electronic components inside are known, have open source drivers and do not rely on third-party proprietary drivers or reverse engineering. This is due to Linux itself rely heavily on open source software and doesn't play well with proprietary parts (take Nvidia GPU for example, every person who has it in their Linux machine knows it causes headache once in a while). Unfortunately, so far only Valve's Steam Deck has a hardware specs that satisfy this requirement. The other ones more or less suffer from closed source components
Not really true. You don't necessarily need open source drivers for Linux to play well. There was actually a period where NVidia was the better option on Linux because their proprietary drivers were better than the alternatives. If the company cares to manage those drivers they will work well. That said, it looks like AMD has embraced FOSS and NVidia finally opened their other drivers, so things are looking up at least. Having binary blobs for certain shit is not ideal either, but I'll take it if it means more people will move to Linux and everything else will still be open.
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