SPOILERS "Doctor Who - The Church on Ruby Road" Discussion : doctorwho

[-] DharmaCurious@startrek.website 23 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

So, I rarely like a doctor for the first several episodes, my brain can't get past the last doctor. Took me forever with Smith. I always end up rewatching them later and loving them, it's just that I can't handle the sudden differentness well.

All that said, I really freaking enjoyed this one. I'm not fully in love with Ncuti yet, but I did really enjoy the episode, and LOVED the song. Oddly, the only Doctor I loved first off was Jodi. Ncuti is closer than most, though.

Also. That kilt. Meow.

Also loving the new sonic.

ETA

Forgot to mention, Ruby really reminds me of Clara in the best way.

[-] CeruleanRuin 4 points 10 months ago

The only thing about the song was I couldn't get my head around the logic of it. I know logic is usually pretty far off in RTD's stories, but it usually at least pretends there a reason for things that happen. Unless I missed it, there wasn't even a word of dialogue about the singing.

[-] DharmaCurious@startrek.website 8 points 10 months ago

I think the logic was that the goblins were singing, like, as part of their culture. Not like Musical logic, but more like how some cultures pray in song, or some cultures chant. Goblins sing big numbers as a way of worshipping/venerating the goblin king, or perhaps it's similar to how Christians say grace before a meal. Gotta sing for your dinner. The doctor and Ruby just took advantage of that aspect of their culture and Bugs Bunny'd their way outta there.

[-] jordanlund@lemmy.world 17 points 10 months ago

But seriously, WTF is Mrs. Flood?

[-] RizzRustbolt@lemmy.world 8 points 10 months ago

Timelord

[-] halm@leminal.space 5 points 10 months ago

Or equivalent cosmic/celestial/whatever being stuck on earth? It seems TARDISes are recognised by other species around the universe as well (like Vinder in "The flux").

[-] Bluefold@sh.itjust.works 8 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

As the big theme of the episode was coincidence, if that was something RTD wanted to continue the list would be:

Some relation to the Ponds. Pond > River > Flood. Given the personality, maybe some future version of River that somehow managed to survive? I've seen others say Amy but the math doesn't work out from 1938 as it would make Mrs. Flood 110~ but who knows, timey wimey etc. Also, 'The one who waits' is what Amy did all her life.
Some hidden relation to Ruby. The obvious one being her mother, but then the question becomes why did she decide to watch over Ruby like that from a distance? Also, Ruby was abandoned in Manchester and they lived there long enough for her to develop an accent before moving to London. Mrs. Flood was distinctly from London and perhaps just a coincidence again that they moved in close. Future Ruby/Ruby is a bi-regeneration of X character etc too
Some relation to the Doctor. The Master is the obvious one after the tease we just had, and the Master isn't beyond breaking the fourth wall. The question becomes why would they aid her in joining the Doctor? The other usual suspects The Rani/Romana/Susan all would be coincidences but would we as the audience really care about it? I've seen someone say The Nun (the female incarnation of The Meddling Monk) which makes a little more sense as the episode is about meddling with the time stream.

Small aside: It's potentially a fake out that the woman we see abandoning Ruby is her mother. I've seen others say that Ruby could be her own mother even. It's certainly implied the character we see is her mother, but for all we know the baby from the 42nd Century and is found by Ruby during their adventures. Making a circle anyway while still keeping the mystique.

Knowing RTD and how he likes to tell stories, I wouldn't be surprised if 1. Mrs. Flood is just someone they meet in the past and it's a genuine coincidence. Nothing special, just someone who helps them out a bit. 2. Ruby's history is just of an ordinary foundling girl swept up in time. The mother who abandons her is Ruby after the baby is the only survivor to some future tragedy. Not special In the way fans think, but special all the same.

[-] CrabAndBroom@lemmy.ml 3 points 10 months ago

Maybe it was her hand that picked up that gold tooth with the Master in it? So not the Master but some sort of Master-adjascent type of person?

[-] ValueSubtracted@startrek.website 5 points 10 months ago

I'm not going to speculate as to her precise identity, but if we take everything the episode showed us at face value:

She knows what a TARDIS is.
She did not recognize the Doctor's police box as a TARDIS until he dematerialized it in front of her, and even then did not seem to know who the Doctor was.

Again, if we are to take all this at face value, I think that narrows the list of candidates significantly, and rules out most, if not all, "familiar" characters.

Could she be a former companion of a pre-Hartnell Doctor? I know the Fugitive Doctor's TARDIS appeared as a police box to Thirteen, but it's very possible the chameleon circuit was operational in those days.

[-] cupcakezealot@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 points 10 months ago

i thought maybe she was ruby's birth mum somehow but i'm not sureee now. or maybe she's the equivalent of mrs. figg from harry potter where she watches over ruby from some higherorg. :3

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[-] Ech@lemmy.world 3 points 10 months ago

(Home instance is having federation issues, so reposting some comments on this one. Apologies for dupes.)

I'm wondering the same thing! 4th wall breaking character? Interesting stuff! I wonder if she was the person that picked up the tooth in the last episode. Either way, I've got the feeling this isn't the last time we'll see her.

[-] ech@lemm.ee 2 points 10 months ago

I'm wondering the same thing! Not much discussion on the mid-credit scene and it seems pretty significant. 4th wall breaking character? Interesting stuff!

[-] darganon@lemmy.world 16 points 10 months ago

I enjoyed it quite a lot. Hopeful for the new season.

[-] ummthatguy@lemmy.world 16 points 10 months ago

Has plenty of heart not just for a holiday special, but for Who at large. Ncuti quickly established his flair and gravitas as The Doctor without having to bounce off of 14.

[-] nocturne213@lemm.ee 2 points 10 months ago

I loved everything about the episode except for it being the Christmas episode. It felt more like a 3rd or 4th episode of the season.

[-] halm@leminal.space 16 points 10 months ago

Oh, this was a crowded but lovely romp! I feel like it could've been 5-10 minutes longer for some of the dramatic and/or emotional bits to breathe, but any story this side of "Eleventh hour" will be sidelined by introducing a new Doctor and companion.

Hopefully the upcoming season won't have to squash as much into every episode once it finds its pace?

Ncuti is every bit the Doctor I'd expected, he slipped into the part like ... a hand into an intelligent glove? 😉 Ruby's family is particularly warm and wonderful once you see how they'd fare without her. Obviously her biological parentage is going to be an ongoing concern, and I wonder if the hooded (mother?) figure will tie in with the hand picking up the tooth in "The giggle", or the fourth wall-breaking Mrs Flood.

The ~~gremlins~~ goblins got the short end of the stick, I think any baddie deserves just a teeny bit of motivation beyond their actions. Fairy tale characters are not exempt, RTD 😆

I knew of the main musical number but I loved that the Doctor and Ruby piped in too. This Doctor is up for anything! My face was... howling with delight, I'm not exaggerating.

[-] GreyShuck@feddit.uk 14 points 10 months ago

Mixed feelings overall.

Fifteen minutes in I was resenting the typical RTD family 'stuff' and still waiting for the story to actually start. I was definitely into the 'I don't care about these people' zone - often said to be the 6 words that kill any story.

Then it did get going and was fun as long as you went with the flow. I did feel that we were as close to Gaiman's Neverwhere and the Marquis de Carabas as we were to the Doctor in this though.

[-] DharmaCurious@startrek.website 4 points 10 months ago

Yes! Major neverwhere vibes!

[-] TiffyBelle@lemmy.world 14 points 10 months ago

Personally loved it! Very excited for the new season. I think Ncuti Gatwa is gonna be an awesome Time Lord.

[-] Worx@lemmynsfw.com 12 points 10 months ago

I thought this episode was great and so fun! The song was a surprise but I really enjoyed it, what a great tune. I've found the big dramatic speeches to be too much in the past. For a time with Matt Smith it felt like the Doctor never did anything - he just explained how great he is then the baddies gave up. When he started singing though it was more like he was playing the goblin's game and buying time to find the master knot which I much preferred.

Ruby seems like a clever and kind person and a quick thinker. Brave enough to chase the baby onto the roof, didn't miss a beat when she got thrown into the song, worked out what the Doctor is at the end of the episode. Fantastic.

The Doctor looked really great dancing in the skirt at the start and I thought him and Ruby's band singer were nice touches for enby / gender-non-conforming representation. It felt like he's learned from Jodie's doctor to be more relaxed and fun.

There was a bit at the start where my family said "the Doctor's black" and I just cringed and was glad they didn't watch the previous episodes with Rose in. I really liked her and was thrilled to see a trans actor employed to play her. Really feels like they're stepping up and getting all sorts of people in the Dr Who universe.

[-] ummthatguy@lemmy.world 11 points 10 months ago

All fine points, except:

It's not a skirt, it's a kilt.

[-] Worx@lemmynsfw.com 5 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Yeah, definitely could be. It's got a tartan pattern but there's no sporran and the camera doesn't really linger in it. In my head it was just the Doctor choosing optimal clothing to look great while dancing xD

[-] ummthatguy@lemmy.world 7 points 10 months ago

Tough to say, though I imagine a sporran would likely throw off The Doctor's groove.

[-] naun@lemmy.world 4 points 10 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Sporrans are optional. It's just a satchel that many people wear with their kilt to carry personal items, but it's not essential, unless it's part of a full uniform.

[-] Ech@lemmy.world 5 points 10 months ago

Those calves. Dang.

[-] ech@lemm.ee 2 points 10 months ago

Not Who related, but McAvoy's calves. Holy crap.

[-] MrPhibb@reddthat.com 4 points 10 months ago

It's called a kilt, and it's called that because that's what happened to the first person what called it a skirt. 😏

[-] CeruleanRuin 4 points 10 months ago

My headcanon is that it's one of Jamie's he left in the wardrobe, and the Doctor just pleated it up a bit for the club.

[-] fsxylo@sh.itjust.works 12 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Calling it now: Ruby's parents are from space/the future and they die. The woman who dropped Ruby off is Ruby from the season finale.

The episode was entertaining but I'm not sure how I feel about actual magic in doctor who. Even the witches from the Shakespeare episode had technology. Genre shifting an entire show is certainly a choice.

This was definitely more of a character episode than an adventure, with the bad guys taking a backseat and then just disappearing. If unit could have shot the ship with a laser and the episode ends the same then it's a bad resolution.

[-] Ech@lemmy.world 4 points 10 months ago

Tbf, they called this out as it's own technology. The witches had song technology, and these goblins have coincidence/"string" technology. Seems in the same spirit to me.

Also, Unit wouldn't have been able to fix the timeline or save the babies with a laser.

[-] fsxylo@sh.itjust.works 4 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

I'm specifically referring to the way the doctor kills the goblins. If the job could be done with a laser gun then it's not an interesting solution. It would have been better if the Doctor played by whatever magic rules the goblins live by and turn it back on them, maybe tricking them in some way. That would have made the episode end like an actual fairy tale, if they're going to bring fairy tale monsters in they can actually use that to their full potential instead of just "blow them up".

[-] CeruleanRuin 5 points 10 months ago

I would have also preferred a solution that involved using their own weird logic against them, but using mavity mitts to pull down the ship and impale the goblin king on a church spire is at least unique and unexpected.

[-] Ech@lemmy.world 3 points 10 months ago

shrug Seemed Doctor-y enough to me, but I can see where you're coming from.

[-] CeruleanRuin 3 points 10 months ago

Magic I can pass off as just weird science that we don't have the language to explain yet, just like the Not-Things from the space beyond space. The goblins weren't all that different from the reapers that eat paradoxes.

[-] currawong@lemmy.ml 3 points 10 months ago

If magic is a troublesome word you can technobabble the thing instead.

Like in the Star Trek: Strange New Worlds musical episode, they encounter a field of improbability.

You can "quantumify" anything that seems magical into something that sounds sciency. :)

[-] Taigagaai@lemmy.world 10 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Aaah, lovely heartwarming nonsense. Absolutely loved it! Very excited to see more of Ncuti!

[-] tjhart85@kbin.social 10 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Definitely enjoyed it!

The song was a bit shocking, but fun. The Doctor singing wasn't all that crazy, but Ruby doing it was. Hopefully they continue to show her being that quick witted in the future.

I'm not sure on the new sonic though. When I initially saw pics of it, I thought it'd be a bracelet type situation and that's cool, but that doesn't seem like it's the case and it just seems big and bulky. Time will tell.

[-] cupcakezealot@lemmy.blahaj.zone 10 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

starkid firebringer 🤝 church on ruby road

i must remind you once again please refrain from eating the babies

but for real i loved this so much and i love the fifteenth doctor even more and i'm also jealous of ruby for getting to travel with him ;__;

also ruby's mum is now the s tier of doctor who mums and ruby's nan is whatever is better than s tier of doctor who nans. sorry i don't make the rules.

oh and also now i need two things; a doctor who/dr horrible crossover and a labyrinth/doctor who crossover

i like how rtd was like "hey davina do you want to get killed by a christmas tree?" and she was like "you betcha"

[-] YaksDC@lemmy.world 9 points 10 months ago

Loved the song! ☺

[-] Treczoks@lemmy.world 8 points 10 months ago

We considered it a good one. We had a lifely.discussion about that neighbor, though. So she knew the blue box was called TARDIS. Which made everyone listen up. My personal theory is that this lady is actually Ruby fifty years older.

[-] CeruleanRuin 5 points 10 months ago

I hadn't considered that. Did she have the scar on her eyebrow?

My thought was that she is Ruby's mother, and the Doctor had some history with her, which is why he didn't go after her to find out who she was at the church.

[-] Sammy@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 10 months ago

I’ve been incredibly entertained by this season, and I think that’s the most important thing in a Who series . Excited to see more of the Doctor!

(Not just because he’s an absolute slice 🤤)

[-] Ech@lemmy.world 6 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

(Home instance is having federation issues, so reposting some comments on this account. Apologies for dupes.)

That was nice! Wasn't a huge fan of the musical number, but it was fine. Feel like I'm still struggling to get a good feel for 15's vibe, but it seems good overall. Ruby and her family are great. Mavity is still a thing and I wonder if "Coincidence" is going to be a theme with these two.

Also, that stinger! Some character that breaks the 4th wall? That's new. Was it her hand at the end of the last episode? I'm going over the scenes with her in my head and just have more questions XD

[-] CeruleanRuin 6 points 10 months ago

With a name like Mrs. Flood, I'm half expecting a link to either River Song or Mars. Is her first name Carol? Probably not, considering that's a Moffat character.

"Waters of Mars" was a Davies joint, but maybe the name is just a coincidence (!), along with the fact that that story took place on Bowie base, named after the man who played a goblin king who steals babies (!).

[-] Ech@lemmy.world 5 points 10 months ago

along with the fact that that story took place on Bowie base, named after the man who played a goblin king who steals babies (!).

Now that is a coincidence. Neat.

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[-] currawong@lemmy.ml 4 points 10 months ago

I really really like this fresh start. We've had a broken Doctor for over twenty years now. It was interesting for a time but it was getting more than tiresome over the years.

Ncuti's Doctor is modern, caring and beautiful. The bi-generation was splendidly done and this Christmas episode was astonishingly refreshing. I'm so hyped for the new season :)

[-] ech@lemm.ee 2 points 10 months ago

That was nice! Wasn't a huge fan of the musical number, but it was fine. Feel like I'm still struggling to get a good feel for 15's vibe, but it seems good overall. Ruby and her family are great. Mavity is still a thing and I wonder if "Coincidence" is going to be a theme with these two.

Also, how is nobody talking about that stinger? Some character that breaks the 4th wall? That's new. Was it her hand at the end of the last episode? I'm going over the scenes with her in my head and just have more questions XD